[Edward Skira]

I've spent the last few days in Harbourfront and I have to say the pedestrians seem the worse culprits (though I saw a few idiot cyclist as well). The pedestrians keep crossing red lights all over the place. I had a chuckle when a few ran across a red to get the streetcar. The streetcar had a green and the drive honked at them and refused to open the door when they got to him. Didn't laugh too much when I saw parents with strollers pull the same stunt.

 

[LNahid2000]

Reading the comments in this thread, I'm starting to think that cyclists are just a bunch of entitled crybabies. Can't get along with cars, can't get along with pedestrians. Just want some magical route built all for them, that they don't have to share with anyone else. The new MG trail is so much better than what was there before but cyclists still aren't happy. Hey, you're free to ride on the road with the cars anytime you want. Man oh man, there's no pleasing some folks. If we had a route that was just cyclists they'd be complaining that they don't want to share it with other cyclists.

I'm sorry but I shouldn't have to watch for cars making a left into me when I have a green light and they have a red. Might as well just make every intersection a 4 way stop then.

I actually feel safer riding on the road than on the trail, and will do this from now on.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I've spent the last few days in Harbourfront and I have to say the pedestrians seem the worse culprits (though I saw a few idiot cyclist as well). The pedestrians keep crossing red lights all over the place. I had a chuckle when a few ran across a red to get the streetcar. The streetcar had a green and the drive honked at them and refused to open the door when they got to him. Didn't laugh too much when I saw parents with strollers pull the same stunt.

The problem is that we have inconsistent enforcement of rules around door closing - they should not be reopened once closed regardless of whether the vehicle is moving or not. Once you break that pattern, it sets up the expectation that exceptions will be made if you try hard enough. It's like training puppies.

AoD

 

[Tuscani01]

The problem is that we have inconsistent enforcement of rules around door closing - they should not be reopened once closed regardless of whether the vehicle is moving or not. Once you break that pattern, it sets up the expectation that exceptions will be made if you try hard enough. It's like training puppies.

AoD

I think the new streetcars will help with this situation, especially once doors are manually activated and the driver has no interaction with passengers.

 

[scrappyTO]

Reading the comments in this thread, I'm starting to think that cyclists are just a bunch of entitled crybabies. Can't get along with cars, can't get along with pedestrians. Just want some magical route built all for them, that they don't have to share with anyone else. The new MG trail is so much better than what was there before but cyclists still aren't happy. Hey, you're free to ride on the road with the cars anytime you want. Man oh man, there's no pleasing some folks. If we had a route that was just cyclists they'd be complaining that they don't want to share it with other cyclists.

I've been cycling the MGT along QQ a few times a week recreationally and I don't believe it's nearly as problematic as some people state. It's a shared trail and space and we would all be well advised to remember that. It is not the place to cycle if you are feeling anti social or in a hurry, and the original path along Lake Shore would be great for that instead. Until then, we cyclists should remember that a smile and a yield will get you further in life in the long run. Slow down just a bit. Use your bell. Make eye contact with the tourists and users of this new street who are still becoming familiar with it and have a real connection with someone for a millisecond.

Was pretty shocked when another cyclist and I had stopped to let one confused pedestrian clear a crossing area after an influx of pedestrians... Another cyclist tried to push their way through the few inches between our handlebars, almost hitting the pedestrian we had stopped for.

I for one am happy to see children learning to cycle safely along the path, new moms jogging with their strollers, etc. and am happy to demonstrate safe and kind behaviour. I use the MGT along QQ as a good warm up or cool down and don't expect to be cycling any races here.

And yes, I drive, use transit and walk along here too sometimes. It's all good.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Today, before noon, I was at Queens Quay and Rees Street. Two cars going south on Rees and turning left (allegedly) to Queens Quay ended up on the streetcar right-of-way. One backed up, and manoeuvred safely onto Queens Quay. The other also manoeuvred, but not very safely, hit a cinder block (scrapping her car's bumper) holding up a sign and ended up driving east on the right-of-way for about a half block. A third left-turning vehicle abandoned the left turn (and avoiding driving onto the right-of-way) and continued on south, where he attempted a 3-point turn and made a proper right-turn to go east on Queens Quay.

That was in the space of about 10 minutes.

The bicyclists and pedestrians were okay. However, I agree with others that the pedestrian signal button should be on the south side of the bicycle path.

 

[salsa]

Today, before noon, I was at Queens Quay and Rees Street. Two cars going south on Rees and turning left (allegedly) to Queens Quay ended up on the streetcar right-of-way. One backed up, and manoeuvred safely onto Queens Quay. The other also manoeuvred, but not very safely, hit a cinder block (scrapping her car's bumper) holding up a sign and ended up driving east on the right-of-way for about a half block. A third left-turning vehicle abandoned the left turn (and avoiding driving onto the right-of-way) and continued on south, where he attempted a 3-point turn and made a proper right-turn to go east on Queens Quay.

That was in the space of about 10 minutes.

But look they installed a "do not enter" sign. I thought that would solve everything!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Well if drivers are too stupid to obey two do not enter signs, perhaps we need to resort to this

 

[salsa]

Well if drivers are too stupid to obey two do not enter signs, perhaps we need to resort to this

As your video demonstrates, apparently even that's not dumbproof either. At this point we should consider seeking advice from Donald Trump on how to keep the undesirables out of the streetcar lanes. These drivers could be criminals, idiots, blind, asleep at the wheel, and some I assume are good people. I propose we build a wall between the streetcar ROW and the car lanes, then force drivers to pay for it.

 

[Tuscani01]

As your video demonstrates, apparently even that's not dumbproof either. At this point we should consider seeking advice from Donald Trump on how to keep the undesirables out of the streetcar lanes. These drivers could be criminals, idiots, blind, asleep at the wheel, and some I assume are good people. I propose we build a wall between the streetcar ROW and the car lanes, then force drivers to pay for it.

Actually, the video shows that it worked perfectly. It was the only thing that actually stopped the truck.

 

[Torontovibe]

A streetcar ride along the revitalized Queen's Quay

 

[MetroMan]

Waterfront Toronto needs to build the grass ROW as it was planned. No amount of signage is going to stop cars driving into it, stopping on it, driving in 2 lanes side by side next to it. In fact, more visual clutter in the way of signage is only making it worse.

The cited reason to keep the ROW for emergency vehicles is invalid.
1) They don't use it.
2) It's extremely dangerous for emergency vehicles to speed by so close to where pedestrians are walking.

I watched today as fire trucks and ambulances drove as they should on the road, weaving through cars like they do on any other city street.

The grass ROW was an integral part of the plan. Removing it of course caused problems. The visual cue of the ROW made it clear where not to drive, where to stop, where not to stop and that there are 2 lanes, one in each way on the north side of the ROW.

To fix so many of the issues we're seeing now, Waterfront Toronto needs to build the grass ROW as it was planned.

 

[nfitz]

All the final plans I saw didn't show grass.

I can't imagine it would last very well here. Nor be worth the cost of maintenance. If we are looking for visual clues, other things can be done.

 

[44 North]

I'm not sure why we have to reinvent the wheel on this. We're not a temperate climate. As much as I'd like to see more greenery in our streetscape, I really can't see grass working well. Perhaps synthetic turf, but...I have my doubts about that. Also, it's still part of the roadway, and vehicles and cyclists will be on various parts of the ROW. So I can't see MTO allowing such a surface.

How about granite bricks? The very same that were brought to this country as ballast and have been on our streets and streetcar tracks for over a century? They look good, and any driver would easily identify that it's not a typical roadway (and therefore possibly shouldn't be driven on). Or, failing that, a few cans of paint?

As an aside, I was down on QQW last night. Massive, massive amounts of people. Many had no choice but to walk on the cycle path. I had to keep a hand on the brake and travel probably 5km just to be sure not to hit anyone (before deciding that if I still wanted to ride, the streetcar ROW was a safer place to be). A few other cyclists didn't have the same level of courtesy. I heard "OUTTA MY WAY!", "THIS IS THE BIKE LANE", etc. And lots of bell ringing.

What about bollards with low-hanging chains along parts of the cycle path? It wouldn't be meant to prevent people completely, but just to corral the wayward pedestrians out of the way of discourteous cyclists.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

As an aside, I was down on QQW last night. Massive, massive amounts of people. Many had no choice but to walk on the cycle path. I had to keep a hand on the brake and travel probably 5km just to be sure not to hit anyone (before deciding that if I still wanted to ride, the streetcar ROW was a safer place to be). A few other cyclists didn't have the same level of courtesy. I heard "OUTTA MY WAY!", "THIS IS THE BIKE LANE", etc. And lots of bell ringing.

What about bollards with low-hanging chains along parts of the cycle path? It wouldn't be meant to prevent people completely, but just to corral the wayward pedestrians out of the way of discourteous cyclists.

I've previously suggested installing fences along the entire length of the cycle path, with large gaps in between them to still allow for easy pedestrian movement. Perhaps more than half the length of the route would be gaps in this fence. I think this would be enough of a visual cue to keep pedestrians off the cycle path, while maintaining pedestrian flows.