[Paclo]

This is listed as an upcoming project currently in pre-consultation on Atria's website:

Towers of 40, 50 and 28 storeys surrounding an existing YMCA facility will feature 1,456 units with convenient access to the Queen Elizabeth Way and major retail, restaurants and entertainment.

More information on the YMCA building and potential development here:

YMCA of Niagara finds buyer for St. Catharines building

The YMCA of Niagara has announced the purchase of its Walker Family building in St. Catharines.

www.niagarathisweek.com

And here:

Partnership proposal to operate former St. Catharines Y in the works

City council requests proposal from property owners; Owners say they are interested

www.stcatharinesstandard.ca

 

[Northern Light]

This is in the middle of a Big Box Power Centre and opposite St Kitts Fairview Mall:

Streetview:

Looking the opposite way:

Moving to the next flank of the site; site on left, Home Depot on right:

I don't see this site as currently appropriate for residential. It could be made to be, but needs to be planned out w/the other commercial sites adjacent.

 

[Wigs]

During Covid both Niagara Falls and St. Catharines YMCAs shuttered. The largest 2 in Niagara region. It was a big deal when both of those YMCAs opened. The Walker family (big philanthropists in Niagara region) donated a substantial sum to get the 110,000 SF St. Catharines facility built in the 1990s.

I hope any residential development can reactivate the YMCA building and reinvigorate the Fairview Mall which decades ago was Niagara's largest enclosed mall before Pen (Peninsula) Centre renovations. If I'm not mistaken Fairview Mall was one of the first enclosed shopping centres in Canada opening in 1961.

Having almost 1,500 units of residential is a big shot in the arm not just to this area but St. Catharines overall which is only around 140,000 people and the largest city in Niagara by far (Niagara Falls is around 100k).

It would be great to coordinate site planning for better incorporation of residential with the overall big box/ mall owners, but I'll be satisfied with any high density residential at this point.

 

[Paclo]

Additional renderings:

Site Plan:

 

[Northern Light]

This remains, in my judgement, an inappropriate site for residential, for now. There needs to be a comprehensive plan showing how the area will take shape in a mixed use form, and demonstrate a reasonable plan for sustainable transportation through here as well as needed services for residents.

Aside from that, the podium boxes framing the YMCA are absolutely atrocious, if ugly required a visual description, the render of those would suffice.

 

[Wigs]

The design leaves much to be desired.

However with so much surrounding waste of space parking lots it's prime for high rise residential as you don't have NIMBYs within close proximity.

I'd love to also see high-rise residential on the Fairview Mall property itself. Thousands of condo units could certainly reinvigorate this mall, the oldest in Niagara.

*I agree they need a comprehensive area plan, and not just piecemeal developments to transform this into a mixed use area.*
The mall owner, condo developer and city of St. Catharines need to work together on a plan for this area.

Integrating the former YMCA to hopefully get reactivated would be great for not just the condo residents but the local community as well. That was a blow losing "the Y" during Covid. It used to be ridiculously busy at one time offering many different programs in addition to the pool, gyms, walking track.

The Fairview Mall has solid local bus service literally steps from the proposed site/former main entrance to the YMCA just across the road. One can also pick up GO Bus or others (Megabus still exist?) to Toronto from here.

25 YMCA Dr · 25 YMCA Dr, St. Catharines, ON L2N 7P9, Canada

Building

maps.app.goo.gl

There's 2 grocery stores, Zehrs and Food Basics (Costco is even closer walking distance immediately to the West), one of Niagara's nicest LCBO stores within walking distance, in addition to PetSmart, Staples, Chapters, Dollarama, SportChek, Harvey's/Swiss Chalet, Tim Hortons, CIBC bank.

Even though it's suburban, because of the mall/out parcels so much is within 250m-500m walking distance.

TL;DR
If any area in the Niagara region besides downtown St. Catharines can build as high as the city will let them it's this area/Fairview Mall site or near the Pen Centre site.

 

[Northern Light]

There's 2 grocery stores, Zehrs and Food Basics (Costco is even closer walking distance immediately to the West), one of Niagara's nicest LCBO stores within walking distance, in addition to PetSmart, Staples, Chapters, Dollarama, SportChek, Harvey's/Swiss Chalet, Tim Hortons, CIBC bank.

Even though it's suburban, because of the mall/out parcels so much is within 250m-500m walking distance.

Broadly, I agree, though there are a couple of issues:

1) If walking entirely by City streets (or as much as one can do so) the distances for some of these stores would be closer to 800M.

The challenge is that you may need to pass through the mall, where such connection does not exist and/or outside of mall hours where such connection may be closed.

2) The City streets themselves are not particularly hospitable to pedestrians. Its not simply a question of whether there's a sidewalk, but whether its remotely pleasant to use. Is there shade on a hot summer's day? A wind break on a cold winter's day? Are the sidewalks plowed regularly in winter? Are roads convenient to cross? Even if one passes on those counts, walking next to a large mall parking lot for any distance somehow lacks appeal.

3) The location of many existing stores is within a sea of private parking. Are there safe and pleasant pedestrian routes across said parking?

I'm more than happy to support development here, in the medium term, but these are questions that have to be answered, or you end up with local businesses or good bus stops being 'so near, yet so far'.

 

[Wigs]

I understand your gripes.

Better pedestrian environment is needed.

Overall comprehensive plan needed for the area with city, mall owner, developer stakeholders all on the same page.

Like I stated the one thing that is hella close is public transit. For a smaller city like St. Catharines (pop ~140k), there's many busses throughout the day. They all line up on YMCA Drive right across from the former YMCA main entrance (subject property), on the backside of Fairview Mall which has a rear entrance close by.

GO Bus ticket machine is there too. I've used this as a park and ride to Toronto before. It was convenient to use the mall washroom and pick up snacks for the journey

Of all of the stores, Zehrs grocery store has pretty good hours. 7am-9pm everyday except holidays.

Having thousands of new residents would be a booster shot in the arm the Fairview Mall needs.

 

[Paclo]

End of the road for Walker YMCA building saga in St. Catharines

The former Walker YMCA building in St. Catharines will not be included in a future rental housing development, the owners and city said Friday in a joint statement

www.stcatharinesstandard.ca

The former Y building near Fairview Mall will not be included in a future rental housing development, the owners and city said Friday in a joint statement.

 

[Wigs]

That's kinda sad. This YMCA was a big deal when it opened, with a huge donation from the Walker family (they've since donated huge sums to Brock University and the newer St. Catharines hospital cancer clinic). It had a really nice pool, multiple gyms, second floor walking track. Lots of space for different events being held at once. For 1994 aquatic centre standards, it was impressive.

It's kinda odd that both St. Catharines (2023 pop est ~149k) and Niagara Falls (pop ~105k) as the largest cities in Niagara couldn't keep their YMCAs going but the much smaller cities of Port Colborne (pop ~21k), Grimsby (pop ~32k), and Welland (pop ~63k) could.

Sad to see a 30 year old structure is disposable. Was hoping it could be incorporated into a huge residential development. This site is begging for high density and adjacent to Fairview Mall which could use 1,000+ units of residential next door.

 

[maestro]

Yeah, it may reinvigorate the mall but, what about the unfortunate souls that have to live there? It's as hostile a built form as the urban sprawl mall. Some will love it taking the elevator to the parking garage to drive around the parking garage to go across the street to another maze of a surface variety. Many others will convince themselves to love this vertical sprawl as developers spread to next block. Eventually, you get a 3rd tier Chinese city master plan without the open space and super wide boulevards.

At least it isn't downtown as a grotesque 1980s block busting mega development

 

[Wigs]

This site is in a sprawl area of a 60+ year old indoor shopping centre (Fairview Mall was built in 1961 IIRC), and 90s big box stores, out parcels. Almost anything is an improvement

 

[Wigs]

If they're going to demo the Walker YMCA they have an opportunity to completely reconfigure the site plan into a much better "urban village"

I don't have high hopes though lol

 

[maestro]

That's the point. Adding skyscrapers on giant parking podiums into sprawl doesn't change the sprawl. It just adds a ton more people living by that sprawl. And the precedence should this be built is replace that sprawl with suffocating vertical sprawl for tens of thousands of people that have no other choice.