TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Is there potential for TYSSE to delay FWLRT? FWLRT is also scheduled to open in 2019.
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Is there potential for TYSSE to delay FWLRT? FWLRT is also scheduled to open in 2019.
jcam
Active Member
1. TTC outsourced almost all of its Project Management on this to outside firms from the beginning...Hatch MottMacDonald/MMM Group/Delcan (Project/Program Management), Morrison Herschfield (Construction Management) and Stantec (Project Controls). The "TTC ongoing costs" are the costs for these existing consultants.
2. The articles last week suggested $400M over. This $150-$185M is ONLY for project management to finish the project. We've still got probably at least a couple of hundred $M in claims to come. The report itself noted that the claims issue has yet to be dealt with.
All in this will crest $3B when the dust settles.
2. The articles last week suggested $400M over. This $150-$185M is ONLY for project management to finish the project. We've still got probably at least a couple of hundred $M in claims to come. The report itself noted that the claims issue has yet to be dealt with.
All in this will crest $3B when the dust settles.
Palma
Senior Member
What are these claims for? And if TTC did outsource most of the project management to outside firms, then is it still the TTC's fault? What is another sole source contract for project management going to accomplish?
jcam
Active Member
Claims are likely for a whole bunch of things from the construction contractors...overhead from delays caused by the TTC (or things that are the responsibility of the TTC), scope changes TTC doesn't claim are scope changes, etc.
It's the TTC's fault depending on how the contracts were set up. If there weren't any incentives/disincentives related to cost/scope/schedule, then there's no fault on the consultants. Probably the reason this report says the new PM will have incentives.
It's the TTC's fault depending on how the contracts were set up. If there weren't any incentives/disincentives related to cost/scope/schedule, then there's no fault on the consultants. Probably the reason this report says the new PM will have incentives.
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denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
This is disaster.
Palma
Senior Member
All I keep thinking about is $1B figure, like everything else in this province from the gas plant cancellation, ehealth, ornge, etc
nfitz
Superstar
There was no report that said $400 to $450 million. That was a media report which also got other numbers very wrong - such as the claim that the entire 8+ km extension to Vaughan had originally ballooned from $1.5 billion. (in fact, the $1.5 billion was only for the extension to Steeles, making the 5th estate's ballooning being nothing but the inflation that was predicted from day 1!
Why not? They make more sense than those the media made up.
In what way is a $150 million cost-overrun on a 9-year old estimate a disaster? That's less than 6%.
What $1 billion figure are you talking about?
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Adjei
Senior Member
The 150 is just the cost of sole sourcing it to a third party group. There are other claims which have yet to be determined which will most likely shoot up the final tally.
Palma
Senior Member
It was a metaphor - the waste of money in this province that always see the word billion follow the $
nfitz
Superstar
The sole sourcing is $80 million according to the report, not $150 million.
But yes, claims are not yet known, and won't be for another year or so. Could go up ... could go down (though probably not ...).
Palma
Senior Member
I meant 150M overall for the particular option
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Exactly Palma and Adjei. Nfitz read between the lines for once. The 150 million is just the tip of the iceberg. And for an extension that won't make any money north of Finch. Ridiculous.
nfitz
Superstar
It's ridiculous to be tossing a $1 billion number around.
It's also ridiculous that once again, the province aren't picking up their share of this.
And ridiculous to think that any subway line is making money!
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
And why should they? The city could have said no to provincial funding and built something much shorter. The mismanagement is on the city. And rightfully so. GenerationW has it right to criticize the city in these instances. This situation is just indicative of why we can't get anything done.
wopchop
Building Toronto
I find it hard to remember the last construction project that I've worked on that didn't struggle with both. Doesn't matter if it's public or private.
The fact that the tender was delayed by 18 months, and the final completion date never changed, is exactly why every project is "behind schedule". This happens all the bloody time, and for other reasons too. Look at York University station, construction was halted there for months. I guarantee that the schedule was never adjusted for that, and people are expected to "make it up". Well sure, easy to say, but "make it up" costs money. On a project of this scale, a delay of 18-months is a huge, huge cost overrun because of inflation.
And this doesn't only happen on public projects. I recently worked on a private commercial site, which endured a 2-month shutdown, and the scheduled completion date never changed at all.
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