Yeah, I've said it before but I think that's obviously necessary and inevitable.

The only questions are precisely how we do it and how long it takes to get our act together. There's no major metro area that uses our "regional system" as a model. Everyone knows what we need to do but there's a lot of intransigence (especially in Toronto) and inertia to overcome.
 
muller877 said:
After the capex is paid for by Vaughan, I expect that the subway will be break-even or even profitable.

Compared to the TTC I wouldn't call the Vaughan politicians entitled for this. Toronto doesn't even allow Mississauga busses to do intermediate stops while they are driving towards Kipling or Islington.
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Our reports say otherwise.

Anyways Toronto will have to decide on how to pay for Vaughan's subway at Toronto's next annual budget crisis. TO Council is always screaming about how they don't have any money for anything, so I hope they'll go to York Region and the Province of Ontario and tell them to find the $15 Million (+ inflation) to operate this subway line. TO Council struggles to find the money to fund significantly cheaper projects, so I don't see why they should gift York Region a $15 Million/year gift without a fight. If the Province or York Region won't fund the operations, then Toronto should cancel service on at least part of the TYSSE. We all gotta rein in spending when money is low, right? Torontonains have all had to experience reduced transit service when money was low.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I don't see why they should gift York Region a $15 Million/year gift without a fight. If the Province or York Region won't fund the operations, then Toronto should cancel service on at least part of the TYSSE. We all gotta rein in spending when money is low, right? Torontonains have all had to experience reduced transit service when money was low.
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Well, first of all it isn't a GIFT to York Region. If riders (which is to say, human beings) are able to get to and from work in Toronto more easily, that benefits Toronto.

(Whether the "money was low" in Toronto or whether Toronto council repeatedly CHOOSES to under-fund TTC is a whole other matter. They had no trouble finding 30 years worth of capital funding [for a project that will likely drain Toronto taxpayers more than the TYSSE will] when they wanted to.)

That said, the larger issue really speaks to the posts above: the old model, where Toronto and Brampton and Markham and Mississauga all exist in little bubbles is long gone. Riders go back and forth, between systems and across borders every day. How we operate the systems - and how we fund them - should reflect that.

The trick is that you don't get sumthin' for nuthin' and Toronto would have to cede some autonomy to access a regional funding pool. The nuances of how to do that fairly are fodder for another thread but I don't think the solution is saying "York Region should pay a portion of the operating costs," as much as it's saying the whole thing needs to be rethought, as much because Toronto transit riders have to watch empty YRT buses blow past them as because there is a "Toronto" subway about to operate in Vaughan (or a "commuter rail" service operating in Toronto, for that matter). At some point something has to give because, as you point out, the status quo is not working.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
If the Province or York Region won't fund the operations, then Toronto should cancel service on at least part of the TYSSE. We all gotta rein in spending when money is low, right? Torontonains have all had to experience reduced transit service when money was low.
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We won't have any choice in the matter. Even if Toronto could do so legally (if the level of service is not part of the subway master agreement), the TTC needs the province for too many other projects. Look at how the TTC huffed and puffed over Presto vs Open Payment, then when the Province said "we'll give you project cash but you'll have to take Presto" the TTC said "I guess we're getting Presto!"
 
Just joining the thread, noticed there was lots of talk about the existing land use in the VMC. For those that haven't seen it, this is the vision for it in the future in 2031 and at full buildout (2050?). This is looking east at Highway 7 and Jane:

lEX8sCn.png
 
And its starting to ramp up to that, There are 2 condos done, and a bunch more on their way. 2 look like they will launch sales very soon.
 
innsertnamehere said:
And its starting to ramp up to that, There are 2 condos done, and a bunch more on their way. 2 look like they will launch sales very soon.
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Does it seem doable to meet the 2031 promise of 25k population and 11.5k jobs (5k of which are office)? That'd be on average 1,500 new residents each year for the next fifteen years . I guess there's little to compare with, but that seems like a tall order.
 
dowlingm said:
We won't have any choice in the matter. Even if Toronto could do so legally (if the level of service is not part of the subway master agreement), the TTC needs the province for too many other projects. Look at how the TTC huffed and puffed over Presto vs Open Payment, then when the Province said "we'll give you project cash but you'll have to take Presto" the TTC said "I guess we're getting Presto!"
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If the Province withdrew funding for other projects that would be the end of the Wynne government in Toronto.
 
44 North said:
Does it seem doable to meet the 2031 promise of 25k population and 11.5k jobs (5k of which are office)? That'd be on average 1,500 new residents each year for the next fifteen years . I guess there's little to compare with, but that seems like a tall order.
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It is, true. But that's probably true for most of Places to Grow. The conformity took longer than it should and the subway got delayed... I won't criticize them for "missing the target" if everything is going on the right direction.


TheTigerMaster said:
If the Province withdrew funding for other projects that would be the end of the Wynne government in Toronto.
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Why? I thought Toronto had found the secret to free subways? :)


TheTigerMaster said:
Sure that benefits Toronto. But that won't fix the $15 million+ hole in the budget.
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It's not a simple calculation but at any rate we agree there should be provincial /regional operating funding going forward.
 
muller877 said:
Toronto doesn't even allow Mississauga busses to do intermediate stops while they are driving towards Kipling or Islington.
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Ummmmm so the Miway 1 Bus, the 26 Burnhamthorpe, the 3 Bloor and I could continue do make stops in Toronto on their way to Islington.

See below for the stops listed on the 1 Route as it comes into Islington.

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TJ O'Pootertoot said:
It is, true. But that's probably true for most of Places to Grow. The conformity took longer than it should and the subway got delayed... I won't criticize them for "missing the target" if everything is going on the right direction.
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Ah, c'mon dude. I wasn't asking you.
 
From the TTC's website at this link:

Who is paying for the extension?

The Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension project is jointly funded by the Government of Canada, the Province of Ontario, the City of Toronto, and The Regional Municipality of York.

The Government of Canada has committed $697 million, of which $75 million has already been provided. The Province of Ontario has provided $870 million, which has been deposited in the Move Ontario Trust. The City of Toronto and The Regional Municipality of York have committed to fund one-third of the total project cost. Toronto will contribute $526 million and York Region will contribute $352 million.

The estimated final project cost is $2.6 billion.
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