Preferred choice for the St. Lawrence Centre Redevelopment Competition

  • Brook McIlroy, Trahan Architects, and Hood Design Studio

    Votes: 11 13.9%
  • Diamond Schmitt, Smoke Architecture, and MVVA

    Votes: 12 15.2%
  • Hariri Pontarini, LMN Architects, Tawaw Collective, Smoke Architecture, and SLA

    Votes: 39 49.4%
  • RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategies

    Votes: 16 20.3%
  • Zeidler Architecture, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, Two Row Architect, and PLANT Architect

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    79
  • Poll closed .
For me, it's:
1. RDHA
2. Brooke McIlroy or Zeidler

DSIA and HPA are strong noes.
 
Last edited:
Also thought about this for a few years- but from Yonge to Cherry st. we’ve got Meridian Hall, Bluma Appel, SLC, COC, CanStage, YPT, Berkeley St. and the Young Centre…why isn’t this called the Theatre District?

King & John has Princess of Wales and Royal Alex… that’s it.
 
Also thought about this for a few years- but from Yonge to Cherry st. we’ve got Meridian Hall, Bluma Appel, SLC, COC, CanStage, YPT, Berkeley St. and the Young Centre…why isn’t this called the Theatre District?

King & John has Princess of Wales and Royal Alex… that’s it.
There is the potential of a venue further west at Front and Simcoe with the Westbank proposal.
 
Also thought about this for a few years- but from Yonge to Cherry st. we’ve got Meridian Hall, Bluma Appel, SLC, COC, CanStage, YPT, Berkeley St. and the Young Centre…why isn’t this called the Theatre District?

King & John has Princess of Wales and Royal Alex… that’s it.
Oddly enough, IIRC at one time the Elgin & Wintergarden on Yonge were (at least anecdotally) considered by some the eastern edge of a so-called "Theatre District"... though there's a big gap between them and the Mirvish theatres (maybe closer to Meridian lol) .

Pretty sure Roy Thomson Hall (though a music/film venue) was sorta lumped in there too... and more recently the Four Seasons Centre (opera) on Queen..

Could probably make a case for Queen-University-King-John to be renamed a "Performing Arts District", though that's a whole extra word. ;)
 
So I finally had some time to review all of the proposal pdfs - there is a lot of info here!

I think for me the clear winner is Brook McIlroy, Trahan Architects, and Hood Design Studio's proposal. It seems the most restrained and functional. I appreciate that it doesn't take away from the brutalist facade, but doesn't try and soften it either - the addition and the original building seem to jive really harmoniously together, both letting each other be. The theatre programming is great - the ability to reconfigure the space to suit a variety of performances and shows seems really innovative. Out of all of the proposals this one feels the most thoughtful and buildable. The interiors have a timeless streamlined look to them that doesn't feel too trendy, and the use of copper for the facade could be really lovely if executed well. I also think it's offering the best experience at grade and on the street - love what they're proposing for Front / Scott streets.

The Diamond Schmitt / HPA proposals look like casinos and I'm not into that - I also do not believe for one second that Diamond could pull off that perforated flowing curtain facade in any elegant way - I would point to the Rosalie Sharp pavilion at OCAD as an example of how that can go very wrong.

The Mecanoo proposal is doing way too much - I love ceramic panels and scalloped facades just as much as the next guy, but I just see opportunities to value engineer - their design warrants its own building and I would encourage them to do that somewhere else (New st Lawrence library?)

The second best for me is Zeidler Architecture, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, again, for seeming functional and buildable. Like the Brook Mcllroy proposal, it seems to put the performance spaces first (which for this site is the most important thing - maybe more than the aesthetics of the addition)

Anyways.... I have no idea who the jury is for this, but I'm assuming they're more well acquainted with the needs for the new facility than I - I just hope they aren't too wooed by render magic.






(I also hope whoever is paying for this building has a heeeeaaaalthyyyy budget because Toronto deserves to get this one right!)
 
So I finally had some time to review all of the proposal pdfs - there is a lot of info here!

I think for me the clear winner is Brook McIlroy, Trahan Architects, and Hood Design Studio's proposal. It seems the most restrained and functional. I appreciate that it doesn't take away from the brutalist facade, but doesn't try and soften it either - the addition and the original building seem to jive really harmoniously together, both letting each other be. The theatre programming is great - the ability to reconfigure the space to suit a variety of performances and shows seems really innovative. Out of all of the proposals this one feels the most thoughtful and buildable. The interiors have a timeless streamlined look to them that doesn't feel too trendy, and the use of copper for the facade could be really lovely if executed well. I also think it's offering the best experience at grade and on the street - love what they're proposing for Front / Scott streets.

The Diamond Schmitt / HPA proposals look like casinos and I'm not into that - I also do not believe for one second that Diamond could pull off that perforated flowing curtain facade in any elegant way - I would point to the Rosalie Sharp pavilion at OCAD as an example of how that can go very wrong.

The Mecanoo proposal is doing way too much - I love ceramic panels and scalloped facades just as much as the next guy, but I just see opportunities to value engineer - their design warrants its own building and I would encourage them to do that somewhere else (New st Lawrence library?)

The second best for me is Zeidler Architecture, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, again, for seeming functional and buildable. Like the Brook Mcllroy proposal, it seems to put the performance spaces first (which for this site is the most important thing - maybe more than the aesthetics of the addition)

Anyways.... I have no idea who the jury is for this, but I'm assuming they're more well acquainted with the needs for the new facility than I - I just hope they aren't too wooed by render magic.






(I also hope whoever is paying for this building has a heeeeaaaalthyyyy budget because Toronto deserves to get this one right!)

We disagree here in terms of preferred proponents; but I do appreciate the the thoughtful dissection of the various entrants.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around your advocating the condo on top, LOL. Give me time.
 
I would be happy with any of the middle three proposals based purely on being wooe’d by the renderings. The Brook one feels dated to me, and I am sort of done with concrete looking bunker walls. Zeidler’s is just plain boring.

This is an artistic venue; so long as the acoustics inside are done right, it would be really nice to see some flourish and pop. My opinion only I suppose.
 
I'm totally intrigued by your interest in the original building here. I mean Albert C is a great guy, but a bit weird.....and we all know it, LOL (ducks)

But I don't recall any deference to Brutalism from you; which to me that reads as...........

Put simply, I'd rather hide or alter the original in which I find no redeeming value than preserve its miserable aesthetic which I consider a carbuncle on the entire area.
I'm interested in coherence. If the original building has to stay, let the addition be in some kind of continuity with it. The design language of this proposal makes the most sense to me.

As for the deference to Brutalism, I'm all for it where it's warranted. There's fantastic Brutalism around the world, in London, Belgrade, Bratislava, Italy, etc. This example of Brutalism is garbage but the chattering gatekeepers have decided it's got to stay.
Coming back to throw in my two cents- agreed that this building should not have been saved- many words have been spilled over it, but in the end, it's an exceedingly mediocre instance of brutalism in this city and hardly deserving of preservation, centenary history and GHG BS or not.

In terms of the proposals, my opinion is that the fundamental issue with the current building are the first two floors- the way it faces Front Street and Scott Street- the latter of which is a problem even with pedestrianisation (what y'all mean that blank concrete walls don't create an inviting space???).

So with this in mind:

Brook McIlroy, Trahan Architects, and Hood Design Studio
Interesting form with the cantilevered upper floors, which makes for a more substantial mass viewed from the West, but it still doesn't address the street presence, which slavishly defers to the original facade fabric in its interventions. Overly minimalist (perhaps underdetailed in the renderings) with a cool material palette and lack of texture, which makes it feel cold (where the very presence of people spoil the perfect lines), but it has some very pleasingly dramatic and flexible interior programming. The rooftop gardens are nice, but I question their viability, and the treatment of Scott Street seems too barren with too many hard surfaces. Blowing up the existing corner overhang for a transparent treatment could have made for a more interesting design- with a 'floating' Front Street facade, and the Scott Street facade integrated into the new massing as 'brutalist legs' à la Boston City Hall.

Diamond Schmitt, Smoke Architecture, and MVVA
Smoke and mirrors indeed- this proposal simply ploinks down a Las Vegas carbuncle (buffet included) on top of the existing facade, again kowtowing to the original mediocre facades. That being said, I like the way the bridge opens up to the north with viewing platforms, enclosing the new pedestrianised space and creating a multi-layered experience on Scott Street- it has the coziest Scott Street plaza design of the bunch in my opinion, with a nice blend of solid/hard and planted/soft areas, and plenty of permeability for pedestrians.

Hariri Pontarini, LMN Architects, Tawaw Collective, Smoke Architecture, and SLA

The most conventional and perhaps least heart-racing of the bunch, but it does the one crucial step that the others have failed to do- it punches out the god-awful street corner facade and adds new openings into the existing Scott Street facade to blend the interior spaces into the new pedestrianised street- this alone should win it the competition. Perhaps in doing so, it dematerializes the remaining original concrete facades, allowing them to float within the matrix of the new design, thus creating a sum total greater than the parts. This design feels cohesive like a new building. That being said, I am not a fan of the design of the Scott Street plaza- it's too occluded from Front Street with the plantings. I agree with the others that the repositioning of the theatre is puzzling with the amount of intervention needed- why not just completely tear down the original building instead (perhaps they had similar sentiments)?

RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategies
Like what others have said, I call this one 'brutalism enhanced'. Perhaps the parti is "The original was lukewarm brutalism, why don't we try to put the pedal to the metal?" The profile of the building is definitely much more interesting with the new additions, but the streetscape is still the driving issue. Even pedestrianised, Scott Street in this proposal feels like a corridor rather than an additional public square. I like the dynamism the play of soft concave and convex curves adds to the design, but the problem still lies in the slavish preservation of the original street facades- perhaps if they had followed suit of Hariri Pontarini and blown up more of the original facades, this would be a horse far ahead in the race.

Zeidler Architecture, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, Two Row Architect, and PLANT Architect
A jumble of parts- no matter how daring the cantilever is, its position on the second level behind the mediocre original facades diminishes it, making it a wasted gesture. Perhaps if they had blown off the street corner with a dramatic open view straight under the overhang, it would have been more successful. The interior spaces are hardly memorable, and the stacked boxes on the side have little to do with the original building design language, and feel more like a panicked attempt to add more interest to the design. The plaza is an afterthought, but at least they tried to hide the blank concrete walls with some bushes!

My scoring:
Overall Massing: RDHA
Street Facade Experience: Hariri Pontarini
Scott Street Plaza Design: Diamond Schmitt
Interior programming: Brook McIlroy
 
Last edited:
Coming back to throw in my two cents- agreed that this building should not have been saved- many words have been spilled over it, but in the end, it's an exceedingly mediocre instance of brutalism in this city and hardly deserving of preservation, centenary history and GHG BS or not.

In terms of the proposals, my opinion is that the fundamental issue with the current building are the first two floors- the way it faces Front Street and Scott Street- the latter of which is a problem even with pedestrianisation (what y'all mean that blank concrete walls don't create an inviting space???).

So with this in mind:

Brook McIlroy, Trahan Architects, and Hood Design Studio
Interesting form with the cantilevered upper floors, which makes for a more substantial mass viewed from the West, but it still doesn't address the street presence, which slavishly defers to the original facade fabric in its interventions. Overly minimalist (perhaps underdetailed in the renderings) with a cool material palette and lack of texture, which makes it feel cold (where the very presence of people spoil the perfect lines), but it has some very pleasingly dramatic and flexible interior programming. The rooftop gardens are nice, but I question their viability, and the treatment of Scott Street seems too barren with too many hard surfaces. Blowing up the existing corner overhang for a transparent treatment could have made for a more interesting design- with a 'floating' Front Street facade, and the Scott Street facade integrated into the new massing as 'brutalist legs' à la Boston City Hall.

Diamond Schmitt, Smoke Architecture, and MVVA
Smoke and mirrors indeed- this proposal simply ploinks down a Las Vegas carbuncle on top of the existing facade, again kowtowing to the original mediocre facades. That being said, I like the way the bridge opens up to the north with viewing platforms, enclosing the new pedestrianised space and creating a multi-layered experience on Scott Street- it has the coziest Scott Street plaza design of the bunch in my opinion, with a nice blend of solid/hard and planted/soft areas, and plenty of permeability for pedestrians.

Hariri Pontarini, LMN Architects, Tawaw Collective, Smoke Architecture, and SLA

The most conventional and perhaps least heart-racing of the bunch, but it does the one crucial step that the others have failed to do- it punches out the god-awful street corner facade and adds new openings into the existing Scott Street facade to blend the interior spaces into the new pedestrianised street- this alone should win it the competition. Perhaps in doing so, it dematerializes the remaining original concrete facades, allowing them to float within the matrix of the new design, thus creating a sum total greater than the parts. This design feels cohesive like a new building. That being said, I am not a fan of the design of the Scott Street plaza- it's too occluded from Front Street with the plantings. I agree with the others that the repositioning of the theatre is puzzling with the amount of intervention needed- why not just completely tear down the original building instead (perhaps they had similar sentiments)?

RDHA, Mecanoo, Two Row Architect, and NAK Design Strategies
Like what others have said, I call this one 'brutalism enhanced'. Perhaps the parti is "The original was lukewarm brutalism, why don't we try to put the pedal to the metal?" The profile of the building is definitely much more interesting with the new additions, but the streetscape is still the driving issue. Even pedestrianised, Scott Street in this proposal feels like a corridor rather than an additional public square. I like the dynamism the play of soft concave and convex curves adds to the design, but the problem still lies in the slavish preservation of the original street facades- perhaps if they had followed suit of Hariri Pontarini and blown up more of the original facades, this would be a horse far ahead in the race.

Zeidler Architecture, Diller Scofidio + Renfro, Two Row Architect, and PLANT Architect
A jumble of parts- no matter how daring the cantilever is, its position on the second level behind the mediocre original facades diminishes it, making it a wasted gesture. Perhaps if they had blown off the street corner with a dramatic open view straight under the overhang, it would have been more successful. The interior spaces are hardly memorable, and the stacked boxes on the side have little to do with the original building design language, and feel more like a panicked attempt to add more interest to the design. The plaza is an afterthought, but at least they tried to hide the blank concrete walls with some bushes!

My scoring:
Overall Massing: RDHA
Street Facade Experience: Hariri Pontarini
Scott Street Plaza Design: Diamond Schmitt
Interior programming: Brook McIlroy

Regardless if you agree with this post, it is a very well articulated and detailed review. Thank you so much for sharing.

The NW corner of the Hariri Pontarini proposal makes it a very attractive design from my perspective as well.
 
I do not add much weight to the various Scott Street Plaza Designs, as I think that will be the first to go, once a budget is determined. At best, I can see them saying "we will hold off on this for now and get to it later", which will be followed by another competition or something at some future point.

And then they will bring in Claud Cormier. ;)
 
I do not add much weight to the various Scott Street Plaza Designs, as I think that will be the first to go, once a budget is determined. At best, I can see them saying "we will hold off on this for now and get to it later", which will be followed by another competition or something at some future point.

And then they will bring in Claud Cormier. ;)
One can only hope - though his 'plaza' at the Sony Centre/Meridian Hall has really NOT worked well.
 

Back
Top