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Prepping the middle bottoms for cladding...

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White bottom cladding on west overhang...

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Any architects/builders here? Was watching this video on YT and am wondering if this building is a window wall or curtain wall system

quite an insightful video and definitely something the avg consumer doesn’t know…Which is ironic considering a home is likely to be a person’s biggest purchase in their lifetime.

hoping this construction isn’t as disastrous as this video would suggest :/
 
It's windowwall. At least some of it should be ok because it's punched opening, but the thermal breaks around those overhangs will be interesting.

Incidentally, that video explains exactly why commercial buildings tend to be curtainwall and condos tend to be windowwall. When you're going to continue to own the building on completion and you're on the hook for the lifecycle costs you really don't want to be stuck with windowwall. But if I just need the building envelope to survive two years, and the buyers really don't understand what they're buying...
 
I hope the newer builds have reliable glass installation.

Here, the builder is Fernbrook Homes and Cityzen. The pre-construction brochure marketed "energy-efficient windows" so we'll see how this building turns out in a few years.

Why window walls are favoured for condos​

Report aims to shatter misperceptions about performance of "glass towers"
Tuesday, August 15, 2017
By Michelle Ervin
A new report aims to shatter what it suggests are lingering misperceptions about the performance of Toronto’s so-called “glass towers.”
...
“As long as systems are properly designed and installed, it (the report) shows that a window wall can perform equally to a curtain wall, and the benefits of a window wall are tailored to residential construction,” said Paul De Berardis, director of building science and innovation at RESCON.

Cladding based on application​

The report specifically compares window wall systems with the unitized curtain wall systems typically used in high-rise construction. This kind of curtain wall system is structurally engineered and anchored by crane to building exteriors in prefabricated panels that can span multiple units and floors, while window wall systems are inserted between slabs from building interiors in panels that span single storeys.
At around twice the price of window wall systems, aesthetically pleasing curtain wall systems give architects more design freedom with their sweeping, uninterrupted spans of glazed cladding, said Dr. Arash Shahi, associate director of Building Tall and a post-doctoral fellow at U of T’s department of civil engineering.
“That’s why a lot of commercial buildings are using curtain wall — because you don’t have balconies, you don’t want people opening their windows and you want them to have a sleek look,” he said.
“Plus, in a commercial building, you don’t have occupants 24 hours a day, and nobody sleeps in the building at night, so the use-case is inherently very different. Also, there’s generally no cooking and no smoking in the units, so you’re not worried about the odours passing through units.”
Window walls help to compartmentalize units, preventing the transfer of smells and sounds that can cause quarrels between neighbours in residential buildings. Cost aside, that — and the ease with which the system can integrate balconies and windows — explains why it has become the preferred option for residential applications, according to the report.

...​

Performance hinges on installation​

The report underscores that, if these performance improvements are to be realized, these systems must be installed properly.
Accordingly, it prescribes the use of field mock-ups of the systems so workers can get familiar with their assembly, among other things, and cautions against applying sealant in inappropriate weather in the final push to get the job done, as subpar workmanship can compromise its integrity. Some of the sealant used to give window walls air tightness and water resistance is now applied in factory, adding a measure of quality control.
The work isn’t done after installation, as maintenance is integral to ensuring that perimeter sealants reach their expected service life of 10 to 15 years, the report notes. It recommends inspecting and repairing exterior sealant every three to five years.
And when it comes time to replace panels, the difference in the way the two systems are installed makes window walls easier to maintain than curtain walls, the report asserts. Work on a window wall panel is limited to a single unit, while swapping out the sweeping spans of curtain wall can disrupt multiple floors and tenants.
“If a window wall panel needs to be replaced, it’s a lot easier because you can access it from inside the unit,” Dr. Shahi added. “When it comes to curtain wall, you actually have to access it from outside, so you need to have a crane in place.”

...​

Click to expand...


Curtain Walls vs. Window Walls: Brian Persaud weighs in on what you should be looking for in a pre-construction condo​

Nov 23, 2011

Case Study: Curtain Walls vs. Window Walls​

For residential condo construction, condos built with glass are usually built using a window wall design; in contrast, office buildings and hotels normally use curtain wall design. Window wall systems are installed between the concrete slabs of a building and use caulking and taping to create a seal that prevents moisture from entering the building. The two advantages for window walls systems are, first, they can be installed quickly and easily and are relatively cheap, which keeps individual condo units affordable. Second, they compartmentalize issues between floors. If spot repairs are required, they can be carried out with minimal disturbance. The compartmentalization also decreases sound transmission between floors.
One disadvantage of window walls is that, over time (and in the worst-case scenario, with poor installation,in as little as five years), the seals can dry out and crack, causing water to leak into the building, which will result in expensive repairs to reseal the entire building. A second disadvantage is that, due to the weaker structural integrity of the glazing in a window wall design, the system has to be built with more pieces (mullions) and joints. This construction makes the building look less smooth aesthetically and, due to the number of joints, increases the risk of failure.
Curtain walls, which have been used mainly in commercial buildings, hang off the front of the building and are anchored on the concrete slabs using metal plates. Curtain walls are much more resistant to moisture, wind, heat and earthquakes and require less maintenance (again, if installed correctly).
Curtain walls also have stronger structural integrity, meaning fewer mullions and joints; as a result, the buildings can look more aesthetically pleasing. On the downside, curtain wall systems can be anywhere from double to triple the cost of window wall design, and are typically found only in more luxury projects. Another disadvantage to a curtain wall system is sound conduction. Noise can be easily transmitted throughout the entire building as it’s conducted through the wall system.
Click to expand...
 
whatever said:
It's windowwall. At least some of it should be ok because it's punched opening, but the thermal breaks around those overhangs will be interesting.

Incidentally, that video explains exactly why commercial buildings tend to be curtainwall and condos tend to be windowwall. When you're going to continue to own the building on completion and you're on the hook for the lifecycle costs you really don't want to be stuck with windowwall. But if I just need the building envelope to survive two years, and the buyers really don't understand what they're buying...
Click to expand...
Ugh exactly. Screw you condo owners! Basically add one more thing to our disposable society.

the punched opening are the lower floor units right? The upper units are just straight up window wall which will be very expensive if they ever need replacing or maintenance. Not to mention— yeah can we really trust that they installed them well? Doesn’t matter how energy efficient the window itself is if there’s a gap around the install!
 
Ujini said:
I hope the newer builds have reliable glass installation.

Here, the builder is Fernbrook Homes and Cityzen. The pre-construction brochure marketed "energy-efficient windows" so we'll see how this building turns out in a few years.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing the links. In the article on window wall misconceptions, it does say that success of the system hinges on installation. The YT video I shared asks the question: how much room is there for error in the installation to still be effective? Sounds like not much. :/

oh well. Guess this means sell after 5 years sad as that kind of disposable living is.
 
You kind of need to think carefully about when to sell. The first condo board is appointed by the developer, and they'll rarely authorize the maintenance and inspection work that needs to be done. By the time the first owner-elected board gets in (assuming the resident owners outnumber the investor owners) it still takes them a few years to get a handle on what's happening around the building. 5 years in is when the problems will first present, and they're usually dealt with case-by-case and just by dealing with the symptoms. It's in the 7-10 year window that things start to get scary. Great industry for kids to get into though. There'll be an ungodly amount of service work to do in this city 15-20 years from now.

And there was a time that the number of installers in the city was pretty small, and they were generally pretty reliable and pretty knowledgeable about what was going on. But the building boom has meant that the supply of installers hasn't really kept up with the demand for installers. There are more and more installers walking around who really have no clue what they're doing, and the remaining installers who knew what was going on have either moved off the tools or have left the trade altogether. And worse, the installers who do know how the systems need to be installed are often instructed to cut corners in order to save money. You have to be careful, too, because a decent installer will know how to cheat to make a wall pass inspection and get through the warranty, but in so doing they often void other parts of the system. Not a chance would I buy one of those units, but there are obviously enough people who would
 
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