[DSC]

Do we know when it's slated to open and what vendors have leases yet?

1. The opening date will be 'early 2024'. (Yes, I know it's FAR too long but that's what 'they' say/)
2. The farmers who were in the old Market and are now in the Tent will return. The City are trying to find something for Sundays (replacing Antique Market) and would doubtless like weekday tenants too.

 

[Start Fox]

DSC is much more connected than I am, but as an observer, the chances of Front being put on any sort of road diet are minimal. There should be nice changes to the sidewalk and Market Lane, though. And the Market St. permanent opening should happen, I think.

Was walking by recently and thought it would be possible to make the area around St Lawrence a pretty incredible experience due to the oversized median (not unlike the University Ave Park concept). Pedestrianize Wellington (edit: actually meant the westbound lanes of Front St) from Church to Jarvis, and include the oversized median that exists there currently. Make the existing eastbound section of Front St two-way (one lane each way, keep the parking spots for drop-offs), with westbound traffic switching to Wellington at the Church intersection.

I'm sure there's some logistics to it but...one can dream.

 

[DSC]

Was walking by recently and though it would be possible to make the area around St Lawrence a pretty incredible experience due to the oversized median (not unlike the University Ave Park concept). Pedestrianize Wellington from Church to Jarvis, and include the oversized median that exists there currently. Make Front St two-way (one lane each way, keep the parking spots for drop-offs), with westbound traffic switching to Wellington at the Church intersection.

I'm sure there's some logistics to it but...one can dream.

You first need to look at a map and then, more importantly, look at the traffic patterns.

First, Wellington ends at Church so pedestrianising it from Church to Jarvis is impossible..

What is the advantage of removing the median on Front (from Church to George)? This adds the possibility of trees and planters that are fairly well protected from damage by cars, bikes and people and create a "green barrier'. Yes the plants could be better but it's not bad. Take a look at archival photos before it was added. (From Church to Jarvis in the 1990s, from Jarvis to George about 2012). If your suggestion is to WIDEN the median this would be great but would not serve pedestrians well (how many people walk down the University median, nice though it is.

The sidewalk widths on Front from Church to Jarvis are pretty good - certainly FAR better than those from George to Princess - where there are more and more residents and thus more pedestrians. The City has plans/hopes to widen them in these blocks with a road diet.

 

[junctionist]

Personally, I’d convert all of Front Street from Jarvis to Church into pedestrian and outdoor market space with programming and events like the old market squares of Central Europe. It would be a scenic market square for the city.

I don’t see why the car should be king in an old town area that predates the car by about a century. It really hurts the area’s economic and cultural potential to treat it as a traffic sewer.

 

[Start Fox]

You first need to look at a map and then, more importantly, look at the traffic patterns.

First, Wellington ends at Church so pedestrianising it from Church to Jarvis is impossible..

What is the advantage of removing the median on Front (from Church to George)? This adds the possibility of trees and planters that are fairly well protected from damage by cars, bikes and people and create a "green barrier'. Yes the plants could be better but it's not bad. Take a look at archival photos before it was added. (From Church to Jarvis in the 1990s, from Jarvis to George about 2012). If your suggestion is to WIDEN the median this would be great but would not serve pedestrians well (how many people walk down the University median, nice though it is.

The sidewalk widths on Front from Church to Jarvis are pretty good - certainly FAR better than those from George to Princess - where there are more and more residents and thus more pedestrians. The City has plans/hopes to widen them in these blocks with a road diet.

You're right, I misspoke - when I refer to Wellington between Church and Jarvis, I'm actually referring to the westbound section of Front St between Church and Jarvis (in my head I always consider that Wellington). That's the area I think could be pedestrianized.

I'm not suggesting removing of the median, instead just incorporating it into the pedestrian realm (same as is proposed with the median on University Ave). My preference would be to keep the trees as-is to act as a green barrier between the road and my imagined pedestrian realm.

 

[mburrrrr]

Picture taken through some dirty windows of the South Market 3rd? floor stairwell today.

Squint and look left. Not a good week for roofing.

 

[C-mac]

Don’t think anything new here but was at the south market today and took these while leaving so figured I would post them.

 

[ML555]

Very little visible movement from the exterior, but I thought I would include some recent photos as well:

 

[Northern Light]

Was walking by recently and thought it would be possible to make the area around St Lawrence a pretty incredible experience due to the oversized median (not unlike the University Ave Park concept). Pedestrianize Wellington (edit: actually meant the westbound lanes of Front St) from Church to Jarvis, and include the oversized median that exists there currently. Make the existing eastbound section of Front St two-way (one lane each way, keep the parking spots for drop-offs), with westbound traffic switching to Wellington at the Church intersection.

I'm sure there's some logistics to it but...one can dream.

@DSC made some useful points above.

I would say the following.

1) I think it is realistic that, one EB lane on Front from Yonge to Church will be removed in the medium term, and given over to widening the south sidewalk.
This is important for the area you're discussing because we need to consider how much traffic is funneling to the section in question.

2)Shifting WB traffic from Jarvis to Church onto what is now part of the EB ROW is theoretically feasible, but problematic. The key issues would be how you line up Front from east of Jarvis to allow that movement w/o interfering with left turns on both sides of that intersection; then in turn, the problems that occur at the other end in misalignment with Wellington. I would also contend that the sidewalk on the south side of Front, from Church to Jarvis would derive considerably more benefit from widening than the north, except for the Market Street/Lane to Jarvis section.

3) From Market to Church, I believe removing parking and all but one lane of through traffic is realistic, though left hand turn lanes at both Church and Jarvis will likely need extending with the pedestrianzation of Market Street and Scott Street.

4) Market to Jarvis really does need sidewalk widening, especially in front of the North Market, but the South Market as well. Here, I think removing the tree-less section of median, which is quite narrow, would be useful. I don't believe an EB lane can be removed on approach to the intersection, but I think a WB lane could. Assuming that were true, there would be ~3.5-5.5M available to widen the sidewalks which would considerably improve their safety and comfort and might even allow for a couple of trees.

 

[DSC]

This on Chris Moise's recent newsletter says the Market may open this year! I had heard spring 2024 so this, if true, is good news!

"The end is in sight! After substantial delays, the most recent due to COVID-19 impacts on construction, the North St. Lawrence Market is on track to be complete by the end of this year.

Residents may notice that the exterior of the building is mostly complete, with exterior curtain walls and glazing installed. The Jarvis street streetscape has also been completed, leaving mostly internal work to be done. This includes interior partition framing, electrical systems and equipment installations, interior finishes and painting. Work is on track to finish this fall.

Following this work, Market Lane Park will undergo its revitalization, with an estimated completion and reopening of the park in the summer of 2024. These two projects will help revitalize the community, and provide a proper link between the St. Lawrence Hall and South Market. I look forward to seeing both completed!"

 

[DSC]

This on Chris Moise's recent newsletter says the Market may open this year! I had heard spring 2024 so this, if true, is good news!

"The end is in sight! After substantial delays, the most recent due to COVID-19 impacts on construction, the North St. Lawrence Market is on track to be complete by the end of this year.

Residents may notice that the exterior of the building is mostly complete, with exterior curtain walls and glazing installed. The Jarvis street streetscape has also been completed, leaving mostly internal work to be done. This includes interior partition framing, electrical systems and equipment installations, interior finishes and painting. Work is on track to finish this fall.

Following this work, Market Lane Park will undergo its revitalization, with an estimated completion and reopening of the park in the summer of 2024. These two projects will help revitalize the community, and provide a proper link between the St. Lawrence Hall and South Market. I look forward to seeing both completed!"

I have been reminded that there is a difference between a building being finished and a building being opened. The previously announced spring 2024 "opening" may still apply. I guess we need to agitate!

 

[Northern Light]

I have been reminded that there is a difference between a building being finished and a building being opened. The previously announced spring 2024 "opening" may still apply. I guess we need to agitate!

And never forget the City's distinction of 'substantial completion' from anything resembling finished, LOL (see Union Station)

 

[Natika33]

The antiques market is no more?

It's moved to Mississauga: https://www.sundayantiquemarket.com/

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

So a newly completed building will stand empty for a year plus while they futz around with it?

 

[DSC]

So a newly completed building will stand empty for a year plus while they futz around with it?

In fairness, the North Market building is certainly NOT finished at the moment - they are continuing to work on the roofing and are busily working inside with internal walls etc (presumably mostly in the Court House floors of the building). Chris Moise's newsletter states that the building will be 'completed' by the end of the year. My other sources still say that the farmers will not move in until 'spring 2024'. If both are correct, there will be several months (4?) where the building will be 'complete" but not yet open. Of course, I also want it open (at least the main floor which has virtually no 'finishing') ASAP and I still think this is possible - the Court floors (and even the parking) could wait until late spring 2024. I think we need to lobby for a partial opening and not wait until every last office and courtroom is finished. Councillor Moise: councillor_Moise@toronto.ca or even Holyday - who (unfortunately) chairs the General Government Committee. councillor_holyday@toronto.ca