Northern Light
Superstar
Since you're making me look:
So far that is the only retail-related permit pulled here.
- Thread starter VoiceofReality
- Start date
Since you're making me look:
So far that is the only retail-related permit pulled here.
zang
Senior Member
Wait, what?
There was a time, not that long ago, that Yonge south of Bloor was littered with sketchy pool halls, seedy bars, sex shops and strip clubs. Zanzibar and The Brass Rail are still around and both have been on Yonge since the late 1950s. You’ve gotta reach back almost a hundred years for the street to have any kind of positive reputation.
Yes, Yonge can be a great street. But let’s not pretend that any previous positivity was long-lived. It’s been a sketchy street longer than just about anything else.
Yes when Yonge Street was actually fun and interesting.
Parkdalian
Senior Member
Enh, I'll take Yonge street's fun past to the sad and empty situation it is now. For instance, it used to be the centre of the gay village before it moved to Church and Wellesley (which itself is dying), and one of the main locations for the city's nightclubs and bars. People used to drive up and down Yonge as a form of entertainment.
And "positive" - the city certainly felt positively enough about Yonge to pedestrianize it in the 70s. It's just that tastes have changed - in some ways, for the worse.
Towered
Superstar
Yonge Street right now is worse than it's ever been in my lifetime (been going down there since the 80's).
Northern Light
Superstar
It always amazes me to see how many UT'ers and people in general make such sweeping statements.
Much of Yonge is fine, it's not dying, it's not dead, the streetscape needs work; and that's coming, several decades overdue........
Sure, I miss the hubbub in what I called the Music City section, where at peak, you had Sam the Record Man, HMV (running concerts in their space), A&A and Sunrise.
Equally, having at least one major cinema facing the street, a few more of the older-style retail buildings vs the more corporate condo bottoms too.
But on the other hand.......
When I was a pre-teen, the old Biltmore cinema had been relegated to a flea market, the Le Strip (strip club) on the second-floor, opposite TEC epitomized sleaze, there was no Sunday shopping and you shoot a cannon down Yonge on Sundays and not hit a soul, and at times it most certainly did not feel safe, (though I walked it anyway)......
Later, we got the site where 10 Dundas East is now, completely leveled as was Dundas Square, w/the former vacant for a good deal of time.
I can't get behind the idea that Yonge is currently at its most awful ever; but I can certainly agree that its a bit more corporate, a bit more sterile than it once was; and it certainly has less nightlife on a Fri/Sat night.
I think it's all rather more nuanced than people make it out to be.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
Off-topically: I'd say it's changing for sure...for better or worse, is depending on individual perspectives. It's always served me well for functional purposes over the years and not really much else...
...though I agree Yonge & Dundas that needs to be nuked from high, in the sweeping generalized opinion. >.<
...though I agree Yonge & Dundas that needs to be nuked from high, in the sweeping generalized opinion. >.<
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gabe
Senior Member
I agree it's bad. I have also been going down there since the 80s. Where are all the people? I walked down Yonge on a Saturday night a few weeks back, it was so dead. I remember weekends that street was packed with people, you could hardly move. But there is really nothing to bring people down there. You got fast food and most retail closes early. That's pretty much it. The bars and restaurants i used to go to are all gone. I really have no reason to go there. It's sad seeing all the empty units. Wasn't that long ago nearly every unit was full on Yonge from Wellington st to Bloor.
taal
Senior Member
So my thoughts - going back 20 years ago or so; I don't really get the comments in regards to it "used to be so much better", at least in this timeframe, I'd argue there's more restaurant variety today than before, and back then most of it was cheap knock off shops. But the one thing I do agree about, anecdotally is there does seem to be less foot traffic on the whole (weekday, weekends, ...) and I'm trying to think through what could be the cause of that (and this comment goes back multiple years i.e. it's not just the pandemic). Some thoughts:
- Compared to 20 years ago, many other parts of the city have greatly densified and improved with a lot more retail (by it Queen W, King, ..., ...) i.e. there are many alternatives to "Yonge" compared to before.
- The much more sort term tread is working from home, that's hurt cities across the world (even though I'm sure there are significantly more people living downtown today then just 5 years ago, many likely working from their condos).
- Slightly longer term trend is of course online shopping, which of course has has hurt and reduced the number of successful physical stores
- Also slightly longer term, uber eats and the like, with more people "staying home to eat out".
- Compared to 20 years ago, many other parts of the city have greatly densified and improved with a lot more retail (by it Queen W, King, ..., ...) i.e. there are many alternatives to "Yonge" compared to before.
- The much more sort term tread is working from home, that's hurt cities across the world (even though I'm sure there are significantly more people living downtown today then just 5 years ago, many likely working from their condos).
- Slightly longer term trend is of course online shopping, which of course has has hurt and reduced the number of successful physical stores
- Also slightly longer term, uber eats and the like, with more people "staying home to eat out".
evandyk
Senior Member
Yonge Street between Dundas and Bloor is probably the most dynamic mix of restaurants in the whole country. They are all fast/casual, but you can literally eat pretty much any cuisine from around the world, all in the space of a 20 minute walk. I liked visiting it in the '90s when I was a teen and it was all t-shirt shops, Sam the Record Man and tattoo parlours, but it's come a long way.
jaborandi
Active Member
A large part of the allure of Yonge Street was the record stores. They were responsible for a lot of foot traffic, especially around Dundas and to a lessor extent, Bloor.
Northern Light
Superstar
The World's Biggest Bookstore, while just off Yonge, on Edward also put feet on the street; as did Maple Leafs games just over a couple of decades back before the team decamped to the Union Station area.
I'm getting old. Spent a lot of time Yonge back in the 80's and 90's but it certainly has changed and for me for the worse. Record stores (gone online), book stores (gone online), independent electronic stores (killed by Best Buy and online), video arcades (online), anything to do with sex (online) and so forth. It was sleazy which for me was the charm considering where I grew up (Willowdale). It was much more vibrant back in the day. The new condos may bring more people living in the area but they are also bringing the same chains you can find anywhere. And since I don't care much for Bubble Tea I'm not really sure why I would go there. Certainly not like in the day. But then I could be the stereotypical old guy talking about how everything was better in the old days.
Parkdalian
Senior Member
Some parts of the city are better, and some are worse! Toronto's downtown nightlife - on the whole - is more exciting and vibrant than it was back in the 90s. For instance, both Dundas and Ossington were just not places to visit in the 90s.
But god, if you want cheap thrills in this city - and Yonge street used to be the centre of cheap thrills - you are out of luck.
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
This is going to be controversial but here is my 2 cents:
Yonge's soul has been eviscerated. That sleazy seedy feel was the soul of Yonge. It's a feeling that gives the closest feel to a rowdy seedy New York/San Francisco/Chicago/LA feel. Now it's just an empty shell that will soon be condoficated and retail will be micro condo retail which in itself is not great for longevity of a vibrant street life. Part of the problem is also the Protestant Calvinistic societal culture that is so deeply ingrained; Toronto the Good. Talking to friends who hail from London and other parts of Europe, Toronto is just very uptight and prude.
The second problem is cost of living is so expensive that it's eating up majority of income. People are not going to go out to bars, restaurants or spend if they can barely pay their rent and other cost of living. This stretch of Yonge St. also is home to a high percentage of students who are most likely living on very low income, spending majority of the time studying and quite possibly decamping from the city once they attain their education.
If anything, Yonge is giving a glimpse into the future of Queen St and it's not good.
Before anyone attacks me for giving an overly simplified observation. A lot of research and data that politicians, urban planners and professionals rely on come from a very skewed view. Qualitative data is more difficult to come by and be incorporated into plans. It's more of "you have to live it to experience it."
Yonge's soul has been eviscerated. That sleazy seedy feel was the soul of Yonge. It's a feeling that gives the closest feel to a rowdy seedy New York/San Francisco/Chicago/LA feel. Now it's just an empty shell that will soon be condoficated and retail will be micro condo retail which in itself is not great for longevity of a vibrant street life. Part of the problem is also the Protestant Calvinistic societal culture that is so deeply ingrained; Toronto the Good. Talking to friends who hail from London and other parts of Europe, Toronto is just very uptight and prude.
The second problem is cost of living is so expensive that it's eating up majority of income. People are not going to go out to bars, restaurants or spend if they can barely pay their rent and other cost of living. This stretch of Yonge St. also is home to a high percentage of students who are most likely living on very low income, spending majority of the time studying and quite possibly decamping from the city once they attain their education.
If anything, Yonge is giving a glimpse into the future of Queen St and it's not good.
Before anyone attacks me for giving an overly simplified observation. A lot of research and data that politicians, urban planners and professionals rely on come from a very skewed view. Qualitative data is more difficult to come by and be incorporated into plans. It's more of "you have to live it to experience it."