urbandreamer said:
Manhattan has a surprising number of 1-2s buildings. Yes Manhattan. NYC feels dense because you've got a consistant pattern of 8-12s buildings in a relatively small area. Most of NYC is closer to Montreal in terms of density/feel.

Bay Street may have the tallest buildings but does it feel alive with action like Ossington, the Annex, the Danforth or King East?
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No, Bay Street doesn't feel as vibrant as other streets, but that's not because it has tall buildings. Again, I'm not at all saying tall buildings make an area vibrant, but, as Manhattan demonstrates, tall buildings don't preclude vibrancy, and I think the extra density they provide is better than the lesser density of short buildings (all else being equal).

Also, it's strange so many people keep insisting Manhattan is so short. I honestly don't remember seeing even a single one-storey building. Maybe I was in the wrong areas? Either way, I don't know how anyone can deny that Manhattan buildings are generally tall. If buildings there aren't tall, Toronto buildings are subterranean.
 
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Bay Street (talking to the old folks) was way more vibrant when it was 3s average.

All this talk of tall buildings=density is rather pointless. A slowdown in condo sales means less dense forms of residential will be the trend moving forward.
 
urbandreamer said:
Bay Street (talking to the old folks) was way more vibrant when it was 3s average.

All this talk of tall buildings=density is rather pointless. A slowdown in condo sales means less dense forms of residential will be the trend moving forward.
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That may be the case, but do you really think it's because tall buildings kill the street's vibrancy? It may be because more expensive (and giant) new retail hurts vibrancy, for instance, but expensive retail isn't necessitated by tall buildings (again, as exemplified by Manhattan). I hope that as the retail at the bottom of our tall buildings downtown gets older and more abundant, they'll become more accessible to smaller businesses (as seems to be the case with the ubiquitous tiny indie shops at the bottom of old skyscrapers in Manhattan).

And I don't think it's pointless to talk about what urban forms are more beneficial. Why does a slowdown in condo sales mean smaller buildings?
 
It depends where you are in Manhattan. If you're in either Midtown or the Financial District, both of which are the two skyscraper clusters on the island, then you're looking at street after street of cascading streetwall. If you're in SoHo, or Greenwich, Harlem or the Upper Westside, it's mostly midrise. Granted, I'd rather live in Greenwich than at 42nd and 8th. But I'd rather live at 42nd and 8th than at Dufferin and Rogers Rd.
 
SP!RE said:
I know, it's such a shame that people are engaging each other in discussion on what makes a good, liveable city.
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Yeah, and most of it has nothing to do with the 501 Yonge St. development...there is an appropriate thread for the whole liveable city thing.....
Sorry but its just too painful to hear the same broken record over and over
 
Once again, AG, that's your prerogative. But many of us feel there is an appropriate place for height, and places where 50 floors just aren't necessary.
 
Living alone in a box in the sky just feels anti-social to me. Different strokes I guess, but at core I think people and communities are better off structured in families and social groups. I just can't think of an instance where the opposite proves better.
 
It's just a different form of "social", Tewder. I've rented in highrise and midrise apartments in the past and they're perfectly workable arrangements - but I prefer living in a little house on a street now. The form dictates which particular form of "social" one enjoys, but I can't claim that being more engaged with my neighbours because I clear the snow at the same time they do and complain about the lack of city snowploughs, or do the gardening when they do and chatter about our flowerbeds, or gossip when we run into one another as we pass on the street, or any of the other traditional "neighbourhood" things, or the fact that I'm more "on show" to strangers who are strolling along our street and looking in our windows, or glancing at me as I sit on the front steps drinking a cup of tea, is better than living in a highrise condo with a concierge at the door, no access to the general public, windowless internal hallways that aren't a substitute for a public avenue for those who live there, and the higher degree of privacy and anonymity that apartment living is rightly celebrated for.
 
Exactly, it's a trade-off that everybody will have different opinions about. I live in a detached house now, after owning a condo in a fairly large building, and there is a LOT more maintenance required on my own, compared to having the condo corporation take care of almost everything for me. For me, that factor almost balances the extra floor space (and backyard) of a house. I could easily see a lot of people deciding that they would rather have the reduced workload plus convenient location of a (downtown) condo over the extra space of a house of equal carrying cost.
 
The theory of less maintenance and repairs was reinforced on ctv news when they said the latest survey of people looking to locate downtown, indicated exactly that. The lack of 3 bedroom condos was also mentioned. The reference across Canada also stated the average price of a detached house in Vancouver is $935,000. Maybe TO doesn't look that bad in comparison.
 
Tewder said:
at core I think people and communities are better off structured in families and social groups. I just can't think of an instance where the opposite proves better.
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What are instances - hunter-gather societies, Libya, Newfoundland, native reserves? Family, tribal, social grouping aren't invariably better than Chicago, London, etc.
 
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Urban Shocker said:
or the fact that I'm more "on show" to strangers who are strolling along our street and looking in our windows, or glancing at me as I sit on the front steps drinking a cup of tea...
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Yes, you are quite fascinating, people can't seem to satisfy their curiosity.
 
Last night at about half past midnight as I sat on my front steps basking in the moonlight, a fox trotted into view along my street, heading for the Don valley ... and didn't pay the slightest attention to me.
 
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