[interchange42]

Yep - it's back - from the April WT DRP:

https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm/connect/waterfront/5ecc7a68-1465-4fbc-b198-36e450056cad/WDRP+Presentation+-+Bentway+Bridge+Redesign+%28DRAFT%29+-+April+21%2C+2021.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Not a suspended bridge anymore.

AoD

There are few things I hate more, public-realm-wise, than a switchback ramp system that doesn't also offer stairs for those who wish to climb them and cut down the time taken. Looking at a switchback I just think there's a couple minutes of my life wasted every time I take that. I expect I'll take my chances crossing Fort York Blvd at grade in most cases if this gets built as proposed.

42

 

[Northern Light]

There are few things I hate more, public-realm-wise, than a switchback ramp system that doesn't also offer stairs for those who wish to climb them and cut down the time taken. Looking at a switchback I just think there's a couple minutes of my life wasted every time I take that. I expect I'll take my chances crossing Fort York Blvd at grade in most cases if this gets built as proposed.

42

That's our 'All Business' Interchange!

That's why he can't shop at Farm Boy because it would require an extra stop to get the TP and the PT and the Soap/Detergent products.

Interchange can't abide wasted time; anymore than a dangling participle.............

Efficiency in all things; no sauntering allowed!

But stops at San Remo Bakery don't count! Even though they still don't sell laundry soap or TP!

****

Edit to add: I actually agree w/this point though; the ramps are important for accessibility; but offering a stairs option, wherever practical makes good sense.

I might be more inclined to saunter up the ramp...........but then make a quick exit via some stairs, myself.

Though, I don't know why we can't have a slide to make the descent even faster!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

There are few things I hate more, public-realm-wise, than a switchback ramp system that doesn't also offer stairs for those who wish to climb them and cut down the time taken. Looking at a switchback I just think there's a couple minutes of my life wasted every time I take that. I expect I'll take my chances crossing Fort York Blvd at grade in most cases if this gets built as proposed.

42

I agree, and it is a switchback that maximizes the degree of annoyingness at that - the length of that section is, by eyeballing, about the same as the rest of the bridge.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

I agree, and it is a switchback that maximizes the degree of annoyingness at that - the length of that section is, by eyeballing, about the same as the rest of the bridge.

AoD

While agreeing at the annoyance of it, from the pov of an able-bodied person, it's a function of the City not building anything over a 5% grade w/o it being essentially impossible to do otherwise.

That's the standard being employed for accessibility. All parks pathways are subject to this standard, with very limited exceptions (on new builds)

 

[afransen]

There are few things I hate more, public-realm-wise, than a switchback ramp system that doesn't also offer stairs for those who wish to climb them and cut down the time taken. Looking at a switchback I just think there's a couple minutes of my life wasted every time I take that. I expect I'll take my chances crossing Fort York Blvd at grade in most cases if this gets built as proposed.

42

Page 31 for reference:


https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm...sign+(DRAFT)+-+April+21,+2021.pdf?MOD=AJPERES


I think a 17 degree bicycle stairway would make more sense than an expensive switchback structure like above. Add elevators to make it accessible. If you can't safely ride it in a bike, better to have people dismount and use stairs.

Good to know! - Bicyclegutter.com

All information about our patented VeloComfort® bicycle transport system can be found on our website. Or you can contact us via +31 (0) 252-320384

www.bicyclegutter.com

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

There are few things I hate more, public-realm-wise, than a switchback ramp system that doesn't also offer stairs for those who wish to climb them and cut down the time taken. Looking at a switchback I just think there's a couple minutes of my life wasted every time I take that. I expect I'll take my chances crossing Fort York Blvd at grade in most cases if this gets built as proposed.

42

Well...there is a "climb down" option if one is going full tilt on their bicycle/skateboard/rollerblades/whatever that sends one over flying over the railings at the switchback bends to the ground below. I suspect though that would hurt a lot... >.<

 

[concrete_and_light]

I don't love some of the details of the switchback as they have it planned here, but I think wide open ramps are probably best suited to this project — any stairwells or elevator-type places are bound to not feel good by feeling too enclosed or dark and dingy in an already kinda dirty and dark concrete environment or just not feel like an accessible easy casual thing to go up. The wide-openness of it will I think make it feel like something you could just saunter up to in an open to the air and safe-feeling way, instead of having to do a climb, or get in an elevator and go up. I think the shallow and wide ramps will feel more accessible and approachable and safer to people and also nice to be open in the air and have these different vantage points.

I'm also not a big fan of those kinds of bicycle ramps on the side of stairs — I find them pretty challenging to handle and I'm fairly abled bodied and strong. They also create a much more "tactical" feel for going up or down vs. just like gently walking (or riding — it seems from this page of the docs that they are intending for this to be a cycle path and the width of it seems like it might support it) your bike up the ramp, or with a group of people. Gently walking up is much nicer and preferred in many situations vs. tactical stair climb or getting in an (enclosed, possibly unsafe feeling, and likely to only get dingier and less reliable over time) elevator.

I definitely agree though that where doable, an alternative faster route down or up would be good, because I kinda find ramps tedious as well haha — I want to get up and down fast, always run up stairs or take steps two at a time, etc. and I think stairs could also be done in a nice open and safe-feeling way in addition to the switchback. But I'm not sure where they could go in this design while also preserving a ramp — I'll have to look at the drawings more closely.

 

[afransen]

I'm also not a big fan of those kinds of bicycle ramps on the side of stairs — I find them pretty challenging to handle and I'm fairly abled bodied and strong. They also create a much more "tactical" feel for going up or down vs. just like gently walking (or riding — it seems from this page of the docs that they are intending for this to be a cycle path and the width of it seems like it might support it) your bike up the ramp, or with a group of people. Gently walking up is much nicer and preferred in many situations vs. tactical stair climb or getting in an (enclosed, possibly unsafe feeling, and likely to only get dingier and less reliable over time) elevator.

They were probably on stairs that are too steep. Typical stairs for everyday use are around 30-35 degree. The ideal slope for bike gutters on stairs is 17 degrees, so much more gradual stairs that feel more comfortable to push a bike up or control a bike going down. Switchbacks are an enormous PITA, and possibly dangerous. I'd hate to see someone fail to brake and do a header over the railing.

See this video, and people using such stairs in the first few seconds.

 

[concrete_and_light]

Those do look way better than any I've used! I like how they're in the middle too so you have good amount of space on either side.

 

[afransen]

The advantage of such shallow stairs (17 degrees) is that they are more compact than a 5% ramp. 5% ramps are absurd for able bodied people, particularly when you start adding switchbacks. You're encouraging bad behaviour (assuming we don't want people to ride on these). These stairs do still provide a railing for accessibility if you are not walking with a bike.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

I agree that where there are long switchback ramps like that, convenience stairs are also important. They need not take up much room. See this example from my former hometown: https://goo.gl/maps/ud3tQNnvppcUt8Kb6

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Video of the April WT DRP:

AoD

 

[condovo]

May 19, 2021

I thought I’d post this as it’s tangentially related. I think the one at The Bentway will have to be a lot less inclined than this for it to be useful to anyone 70+.

Summerhill Switchback

Bonus shot

 

[kotsy]

Bonus shot

* money shot

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

* money shot

As long as the top bit right side up doesn't spell out "kotsy"... >.<