Someone has to be distressed about these things...How can you separate aesthetics from the kind of built form that lends itself to more crime and poverty? It's not just about crime and poverty either, but rather the multiple feelings or experiences that the place evokes. CityPlace as a new alternative community is fine where it is. There wasn't much there to start with. Supertalls are also fine in the right contexts across the city. I'm talking about respecting established neighbourhoods and the good bones within them that work well.
 
The sad thing in my personal experience with my own property investments is that there is really not much financial advantage to aesthetics. I'm not saying this is universally true or true in every investment model. What I am saying is that financially, aesthetics only really matter when you are trying to differentiate your product in order to squeeze out returns in a low return environment. That is why retailers care about how their stores look but building owners don't really. Retailers are squeezing out marginal returns while the bulk of the wealth is being generated by the property owner whose build really is only valuable because of its location, the space it encloses, and to a lesser extent its state of repair. That state of repair may or may not include its aesthetics, but it is better to have a clean and functioning building then an attractive or aesthetically significant one.
 
I agree that from an investment perspective, that's pretty much all that counts. Also, design has everything to do with communities that function well or do not (including crime and poverty rates). That doesn't pertain to this intersection or building, because Yonge and Bloor is a very public intersection in a very well-heeled area. That building will be uniquely tall and of high design and quality materials. If you want to see how design of a planned community shapes behavior, look at the former Regent Park. This is something, Waterloo_Guy, that has been the subject of decades of urban planning research. This isn't the thread for that discussion. Suffice it to say that Regent Park had blind allies and no proper street grid running through it, so it was cut off from the wider community and became unsafe in pockets. The visionaries who built it thought they were doing something progressive, building a kind of 'city in a park', the Le Corbusian tower surrounded by park land, which in reality became a no-man's land. There are numerous examples of these housing projects. In Toronto alone you'll find them in Moss Park, the Jane and Finch corridor, Alexandra Park, St. Jamestown. These urban designs lend themselves to crime and poverty, though there are certainly other factors at play than the built form. It's always a bit of a disaster when a housing project contains one income level, especially when it's a very low one. That's why Crombie Park in the St. Lawrence neighbourhood is so successful, because it has a mix of income levels, public and private housing, and it integrates well with the community in terms of scale, materials, and street grid. Essentially it isn't a low income ghetto, which is what we have in the other communities I mentioned, although Regent Park and Alexandra Park are being rebuilt to change this.
 
Evidence? As though aesthetics are measured in data points... When St. Jamestown was constructed people flocked there because it was considered swish. Remember Le Corbusier? Now we're trying to remediate the place. CityPlace probably has a better variety and quality of architecture. CityPlace is fine where it is. I'm talking about the needless destruction of irreplaceable structures that give a sense of permanence and place. ƒ#$% it, bulldoze Toronto and reproduce another Ordos Kangbashi. China has blueprints.

You're wrong. St Jamestown never lived up to expectations. It never rose to be considered "swish". I've read enough articles about it from the late 1960s and 1970s. I assume that is why the final 3 towers were built as subsidized housing for MTHA and St Jamestown North is only being developed now.

There are some problem condo corporation but, not to the degree of the rental communities of that time. The rules have also changed and location is everything It is pretty damn out there to imagine Cityplave degenerating to the level of St Jamestown.
 
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Just to step back in and make a brief clarification - I compared CityPlace and Liberty Village to St. Jamestown not because I think they will suffer the same socio-economic fate or welter of poverty and crime issues, but more because I think they share a similar kind of monotony in terms of appearance.... these are places where the buildings, with some notable exceptions, look woefully similar to one another and share similar heights, massing, surface treatments, and the like. I appreciate more variety than what I'm seeing in those neighbourhoods. I think Liberty Village in particular is a botched opportunity but I'm hoping that time and future development will soften the blow and mask some of the more egregious elements.

Lastly, I'm really looking forward to seeing The One rise.
 
Actually you're wrong, maestro. Many young people flocked to St. Jamestown (including my mother who left Rosedale!) because it was, early on at least, representative of a new kind of urban living. Cheaply built, mass produced, and poorly integrated with the surrounding community, it has not stood the test of time, except as relatively cheap housing.
 
August 9th:

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Do other cities treat heritage-facades like Toronto does?

Yes, some rip them out always and entirely!

For all the critique about so-called facadectomies, it's commendable that we at least hold developers to some standards in that regard. In some cases, it forces developers into significant and costly preservation projects.
 
Not many to our degree. Not many are building as much as we are either.

Australian cities take the cake. Pretty much their policy when it comes to heritage retention . Some amazing architecture has being chopped up in the name of heritage preservation. We haven't reached that point here yet where the threat of Old City Hall being carved up is a possibility.
 
The site will make a great temporary skating rink this coming winter. And then a refreshing urban parkette come springtime.
 

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