Northern Light said:
This bit for a start:



I will be very specific here without naming any names.

This forum has, that I know of, more than one member of various GTA Planning Departments, Planners (plural) from at least 2 of the City's larger firms that do planning on behalf of developers, several professional lobbyists who work in the industry, at least 3 people who work in architecture offices, 2 more in engineering offices, a few active members of the trades, some brokers and several staff, owners and CEOs of developers in the Toronto area, and several more who don't fit a neat industry job title, but who have been around the industry for years and know many of the players (ahem)......

Doubtless, since I don't know everyone's real name or job title here, there are many more knowledgeable people here than I am even aware of......

****

Without a doubt UT also has members with less industry knowledge and some who might even be a tad boosterish...........but across the board that assertion of UT members is simply incorrect.
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Yet with all of that combined brilliance the dominant narrative in this thread is what...that Sam is a great guy trying to build an iconic building for Toronto?

It's rose coloured glasses because of love of architecture or simply ignorance.
 
LoMein said:
Check the thread history. Every time I or somebody else posted the G&M articles outlining this fraud or discussed it any way...we were told to shut up. The mods said it wasn't allowed to be discussed here.

So I get what you're saying and I agree. It's just not what happened in this thread at all.

The One | 328.4m | 91s | Mizrahi Developments | Foster + Partners

Benito must be a clairvoyant for he picked the best time to go on vacay just before another round of FruitCo drama broke out :p Kinda irrelevant actually. As he'll still likely have a progressing building to take pics of from his perch regardless of any such drama. #TheShowMustGoOn
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
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At every step, there's been a doomsayer bleating out that "this is it! It's done now. Don't expect any further construction."

And yet, the building keeps rising.
 
LoMein said:
Check the thread history. Every time I or somebody else posted the G&M articles outlining this fraud or discussed it any way...we were told to shut up. The mods said it wasn't allowed to be discussed here.

So I get what you're saying and I agree. It's just not what happened in this thread at all.

The One | 328.4m | 91s | Mizrahi Developments | Foster + Partners

Benito must be a clairvoyant for he picked the best time to go on vacay just before another round of FruitCo drama broke out :p Kinda irrelevant actually. As he'll still likely have a progressing building to take pics of from his perch regardless of any such drama. #TheShowMustGoOn
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
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Simple ignorance, indeed.
 
LoMein said:
the dominant narrative in this thread is what...that Sam is a great guy trying to build an iconic building for Toronto?
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I don't recall this being a significant narrative at all.

Most people here don't know Sam and wouldn't be speaking on his personal character.

Sure, lots of people like the architecture of this building and would like to see it move forward, that's not the same as praising or disparaging a person you've never met.

There is some boosterism, to be sure; but there's also some healthy skepticism, both of Sam/'The One' and of his/its detractors.

Beyond that, I think people are prepared to entertain substantive information on this project, including negative information. Certainly I am.

But there is somewhat less patience when that negativity comes without specific evidence in hand. I don't fault you or anyone else who may have such evidence for not posting it.........
but likewise, I can't fault others for saying, in the absence of clear evidence, I need not take a negative outlook on this thing.

****

For all that, the majority of this thread is photos, and discussions of construction progress, and technical aspects of the build. Comparatively little time is spent on the business end of the matter.

There's also real estate threads for that type of discussion, at least in part, as opposed to construction threads.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
This really isn't the thread for this. The Admin has asked us to stop talking about it here. Therefore, you should consider starting own thread about this (over in Real Estate?). So there's lots to understand about that...

...so I'm not here to stop your crusade against corruption at all levels over this. I'm just saying take it somewhere where it's more appropriate and relevant. Most of us are just here to see this building get built. Thnkx!
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I will admit, this reply does seem like “stop talking about business complications, we just want to see this thing get built”. But it’s really just this one reply.

Is there actually a rule on UT that discussion of financing for a project (or business failure, or corruption, or whatever) has to go in a Real Estate thread, not a Construction thread, even once construction has begun?
 
LoMein said:
Yet with all of that combined brilliance the dominant narrative in this thread is what...that Sam is a great guy trying to build an iconic building for Toronto?

It's rose coloured glasses because of love of architecture or simply ignorance.
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dig-up.gif
 
Geoff Olynyk said:
Is there actually a rule on UT that discussion of financing for a project (or business failure, or corruption, or whatever) has to go in a Real Estate thread, not a Construction thread, even once construction has begun?
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No. I think the issue more is when discussions devolve into circular restatements of the same positions / ideas / perspectives with no actual additional contribution, the conversation is eventually cut off. Without being privy to specific insider knowledge of what is going on with the financing (and I do believe anyone who is would wisely not be commenting), there is only so much to say before all realistic possibilities have been speculated.
 
Geoff Olynyk said:
Is there actually a rule on UT that discussion of financing for a project (or business failure, or corruption, or whatever) has to go in a Real Estate thread, not a Construction thread, even once construction has begun?
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The principle applicable rule will be this (from the Urban Toronto Rules of Conduct):

1663015185945.png


Found here: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/urbantoronto-rules-of-conduct.7113/

Additionally, threads are to make some attempt to stay on topic, and trolling (including harping on some very narrow issue without end)....is frowned upon.
 
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Well, I for one would LOVE to see this get built ... regardless of what is happening behind the scenes.

Not to mention, I haven't gotten the idea that any of the parties involved have been acting in perfect faith based on everything I've read. So in the end @LoMein , why is it bad if there are a few nerds like me on the forums that really just want to see a cool building constructed, in what is a prominent location?
 
My issue with all the discussion here is that there are two very vocal camps when it comes to this building. One is, it's doomed, it'll never get built, it's a disaster, construction is stopping any day now. The other is, nothing to see here, move along, this is all a big nothingburger.

Neither of these stances are correct. The reality is there are major problems going on in the background here, and they've been going on for a while. The fact that they've been going on for a while, and construction has continued on this site is proof that it will almost certainly not suddenly stop tomorrow. However, that does not mean this thing is in the clear, and will get built as is, by the current owners on the current timeframe. I'm not saying that can't happen either, the reality is we simply don't know.

There are issues here that are not normal, they are not a deathblow for this project, and they likely won't have an immediate impact. But to dismiss them outright is also completely wrong, because there is genuine financial turmoil here that could undoubtedly significantly impact the project.
 
Lyphe said:
Well, I for one would LOVE to see this get built ... regardless of what is happening behind the scenes.

Not to mention, I haven't gotten the idea that any of the parties involved have been acting in perfect faith based on everything I've read. So in the end @LoMein , why is it bad if there are a few nerds like me on the forums that really just want to see a cool building constructed, in what is a prominent location?
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I think many UTers would like to see it built but lots of us have doubts that will happen with the current developers. I guess we will see.
 
Geoff Olynyk said:
I will admit, this reply does seem like “stop talking about business complications, we just want to see this thing get built”. But it’s really just this one reply.

Is there actually a rule on UT that discussion of financing for a project (or business failure, or corruption, or whatever) has to go in a Real Estate thread, not a Construction thread, even once construction has begun?
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And I stand by that position. As it's not telling anyone to shut up about it or not talk about, as LoMein-san is implying for that Fox News "Ah-ha!" moment. Rather to take the conversation to the more appropriate Real Estate venue...as this is bordering of the off-topic, unless this news will cause this project to turn into The Stump 2.0 tonight.

As for the latter question, I'll leave that for the mods to answer...but I suspect their answer would be similar to mine. /shrug
 
Bjays92 said:
My issue with all the discussion here is that there are two very vocal camps when it comes to this building. One is, it's doomed, it'll never get built, it's a disaster, construction is stopping any day now. The other is, nothing to see here, move along, this is all a big nothingburger.
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To be clear, I stated...

UtakataNoAnnex said:
Meanwhile, I'll patiently wait from the photographic documentation by UT's finest volunteers to see if there is something to this or a nothing burger...
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...which implies this could go either way. And if it is, then yes, it is indeed something we should be concerned about. And assuming that was directed at me.

(Note: Emphasis in both quotes are mine.)
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
To be clear, I stated...


...which implies this could go either way. And if it is, then yes, it is indeed something we should be concerned about. And assuming that was directed at me.

(Note: Emphasis in both quotes are mine.)
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I wasn't specifically calling you out, nor did I realise that you even directly used nothingburger in one of your comments. So apologies if it felt as though I was directly going at you, because that simply wasn't the case or intention. I was just using words I felt summarized the general sentiments on the forum.
 
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