But this is the opposite of cutting losses. Going to 91 at this point is essentially building 70 spec luxury condos in a market full of luxury product. I'm sure they'll at least consider it because at this point, with this much drama, who is going to pay premium pricing for units at this project?
 
SonyPayStation said:
Because it’s not clear that throwing good money after bad makes sense. Even if they finish it, they have $1.4B in units to sell. Not sure it's a build it and they will come at this point, so while each additional floor creates cost, it's not clear that it creates profit.
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$600 million loss is projected. Anyone who doesn’t see this is potential fraud by design is blind.
 
An ostrich? Sorry, no, I'm not. As you can clearly see from my avatar, I'm a Lurian.
 
xy3 said:
Compare how fast One Saint Thomas went up in 2007, which was at a similar price point, compared to this Foster project. The engineering is undoubtedly more complex as another posted pointed out.
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Of course, but then it would have been a completely different project.
 
Tesla said:
Are you an ostrich? Otherwise why is your head in the sand?
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Off topically, and so that you know...

"As flightless birds, ostriches are unable to build nests in trees, so they lay their eggs in holes dug in the ground. To make sure that the eggs are evenly heated, they occasionally stick their heads into the nest to rotate the eggs, which makes it look like they're trying to hide – hence the myth."

Do ostriches really bury their head in the sand?

Asked by: Vanessa Fisher, Plymouth
www.sciencefocus.com www.sciencefocus.com
 
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AdamS said:
The issue now is that the real estate market is in decline. The higher rates are thinning the buyer pool. It will be hard to see how subordinated debt/unprotected lenders will agree to see this project to completion if prices continue to drop and they will continue to drop. I suggested they cap the building at 50 or so floors and cut their losses.
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this is a high-end high-priced product, buyers here are not the typical investors buying tiny cookie-cutter 1-bedroom condos looking to flip or rent out. They are not so much relying on financing and the completion is not for another 2+ years so the project should weather the downturn storm by the time it is completed. There will be buyers in this luxury segment (though it will take longer to sell like any high-priced real estate) and there are very few projects like this.
I don’t think there will be any significant changes in the building design to make this work and it will be a travesty if it will be cut down in height as the selling point of this building is the height and its uncommon luxury features. That being said, It will be interesting to see how this development will pan out and how they could make the financing and numbers work.
 
AdamS said:
But this is the opposite of cutting losses. Going to 91 at this point is essentially building 70 spec luxury condos in a market full of luxury product. I'm sure they'll at least consider it because at this point, with this much drama, who is going to pay premium pricing for units at this project?
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Exactly. No one would put shovel in the ground on a new tower that relied on $1.4B of spec sales today. It would be insane.
 
The cost structure for finishing the last X amount of floors on the building versus putting shovels in the ground on a new development isn’t comparable, considering the up-front costs that have been paid, foundation already built, materials ordered, etc. We’re not dealing with r/wallstreetbets redditors here, the creditors extending another 300mill is a clear sign they believe the revenue from completing the building outweighs the additional cost.
 
Collingwoodbuildinglover said:
Once again, multiple projects throughout the world suffered financially as a result of covet lockdowns. This building sat with two stories in the ground for multiple months with one of the largest lifting cranes in all of Toronto. Sitting in the middle can't say that didn't cost money and that was not their fault
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Haha, are we blaming this mainly on the Covid Lockdowns? Because that's pretty rich. Developments all over the city went through the same thing and 99% of them didn't go into receivership. This building didn't go into receivership because a big crane was sitting idle.
 
I mean, I think some folks are not very happy that this thing is still getting built, IMO. It's not the kind of schadenfreude they where looking for with this developer going into receivership here, lol...

...alternatively, I still believe this a way better outcome than uncompleted tower left derelict for the ages and many who are working on building this losing their jobs. So I also believe the arrangements here are to make sure all contracts are honoured. And it's also my hope for those who have purchased units in advance will have their agreements honoured too. And at the end of the day, there still maybe profits to be made here. Who knows.
 
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Koops65 said:
Of course it's concerning, but so far, all of the interested parties seem to be in agreement that construction should continue, until the building is complete. Some posters seem to "push" the agenda that this building is history, or toast, or a goner, or whatever, but the actual evidence suggests otherwise... the level of ignorance and the movement towards some sort of conspiracy theory about this whole project makes me shake my head.
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Construction is continuing as it is in the best interest for it to continue for now. I find it hard to believe that an agreement has already been made to complete the building. The best case scenario for the credit owners is to sell this to another developer in which having construction not come to a screeching halt is a selling point. It's outside their core business to become a developer and have $2 billion of their own money with no interest payments wrapped up in The One for the next 3 to 4 years.

Ignorance is limiting this to built as planned or unbuilt. It also makes a boring discussion speculating on what will happen here. Receivership isn't some clerical error.
 
neuhaus said:
this is a high-end high-priced product, buyers here are not the typical investors buying tiny cookie-cutter 1-bedroom condos looking to flip or rent out. They are not so much relying on financing and the completion is not for another 2+ years so the project should weather the downturn storm by the time it is completed. There will be buyers in this luxury segment (though it will take longer to sell like any high-priced real estate) and there are very few projects like this.
I don’t think there will be any significant changes in the building design to make this work and it will be a travesty if it will be cut down in height as the selling point of this building is the height and its uncommon luxury features. That being said, It will be interesting to see how this development will pan out and how they could make the financing and numbers work.
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Yonge and Bloor is not a luxury area. Upscale at best. Purchasers were flippers and brokers hoping to find a bigger fool. The entire project looks and smells like a massive fraud.

Nice exoskeleton columns and windows though. 🙃
 
mildlyamusingusername said:
The cost structure for finishing the last X amount of floors on the building versus putting shovels in the ground on a new development isn’t comparable, considering the up-front costs that have been paid, foundation already built, materials ordered, etc. We’re not dealing with r/wallstreetbets redditors here, the creditors extending another 300mill is a clear sign they believe the revenue from completing the building outweighs the additional cost.
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The creditors are the biggest fools in the entire fiasco. Fools or complicit in a scam, take your pick.
 
Well as someone who has zero investment in this and zero knowledge on the development side have just coordinated a few projects in my life. I am here to watch this building. Get built whatever happens with the money. I don't care just as long as it is finished hopefully. And it's original iteration because it is a very aesthetically pleasing design
 
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