[Big Daddy]

Honestly, it's a matter of personal choice and sacrifice. I'd much rather live in a smaller unit - even a studio condo - that is walkable to almost EVERYTHING than a smaller city where I have to drive. Living downtown, I can walk to restaurants, have easy access to culture, shopping and much more. Sure, there are malls in London, ON and St Catherines, but one can easily get sick and tired of the same chains. And to think that I have to drive at least an hour to go to the symphony, the opera or to see a really cool art exhibit is just not something I want to do. Heck, I'd rather raise a child in an 800 sq ft unit downtown than a 2,500 house in the 905.

Easily said - you must be younger and childless - you may feel differently when you have children in such a unit.

And it's not really just a personal choice - being close to the symphony and opera is nice but only if you can afford the symphony and the opera. and these "studio apartments" are difficult (pretty much anything under $300,000 is a no bedroom studio) - you cannot entertain in them and they generally have one small closet for everything & no counter space. My neighbours son lives in such a unit and uses his parents basement here in Mississauga for his storage needs (winter clothes in the summer, summer clothes in the winter etc.) Independence with strings attached. Hopefully his parents always have a home he can use.

I love Toronto, I always have and likely always will, but the city is slowly becoming unaffordable - I work with a lot of first time home buyers and am surprised to hear them say how disappointed they are with the lack of affordable condos with outrageous maintenance fees and the crowding on the subway. When I was younger, I would have loved to live downtown, (would still love to live downtown frankly) however, given what I earned back then, i don't think i could have afforded it much less the symphony and/or the opera. But like you, that would have been my dream too.

 

[sixrings]

I will say i did love being downtown when i was younger but it is true that between the fees and the mortgage there wasn't much left for raptor tickets or diners out. Honestly there was a lot of subway and cereal. Its no different than living in nyc. Its my dream but only if i could afford to maintain my same lifestyle here.

 

[Danielinthecity]

Children

Easily said - you must be younger and childless - you may feel differently when you have children in such a unit.

I have an adorable Little Girl living downtown in a 2-bedroom less than 600 square feet and she has her own room, which is about 10x10 and it's plenty for what she needs. I also know a couple in the same building who have 3 kids in less than 400 square feet. To be honest I don't know how they do it, but my guess it that they just decide not to have a lot of 'stuff'....and I think they're raising their kids that way....I know that she didn't even have a stroller with her last little girl, but would just use those things where the child is wrapped around you (forget the name now)....she's also a personal trainer so good on her for exercising AND not cluttering her space with a stroller....I give her credit for that! So really it's all about how we choose to live....with a lot of stuff or not. But it is very doable. As someone said, people have been doing it for years in places like NYC, Hong Kong, Paris, etc....and somehow these children grew up okay.

 

[travis3000]

I really don't understand the appeal of enormous living spaces, especially if you don't have children.

For a little while we lived in a large apartment out in the suburbs. The experience was more depressing than anything. Most of the space in the apartment went unused. Rarely did we use anything but the bedroom, kitchen and washroom. Even the living room went mostly unused, though I did appreciate that space at times. The worst thing about it was living so far from everything. 40 minutes to get downtown, and a 20 minute walk to the nearest food place? No thanks.

Give me a bedroom, kitchen and washroom located downtown and I'll be satisfied. A bedroom, kitchen, washroom and living room with convenient connections downtown, and I'll have more than I'd ever need.

Hahaha. If you think thats bad try living in my situation.... 10 minute DRIVE to the nearest restaurant/town, 1 hour and 10 minutes from downtown Toronto, 45 minutes to the GTA, no neighbours within 500ft of my house, total seclusion on 50 acres. Without a car, you aren't seeing anyone with the exception of some deer and wild turkey

Many of my friends wouldn't be able to live here if you paid them, they feel instant loneliness, boredom, and isolation. Those are the type of people that belong in downtown Toronto. It's a lifestyle. And you pay for that lifestyle. There are pros and cons for both types of lifestyle. But this isn't really the thread for it, so I'll stop here.

With regards to this condo, I am very excited. I may live in the country but I love watching a city boom and thrive. Towers like these don't come around often, I feel like something iconic is going to be built from what I've read so far.

 

[verticalvillage]

I really hope we in for a more exuberant form than the standard box on a podium, which is essentially what One Bloor is (as much as I love it).
I'd love some kind of revival of Foster's unbuilt Millennium Tower.
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/projects/millennium-tower/

 

[Conrad Black]

That would be cool.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I really hope we in for a more exuberant form than the standard box on a podium, which is essentially what One Bloor is (as much as I love it).
I'd love some kind of revival of Foster's unbuilt Millennium Tower.
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/projects/millennium-tower/

The site is nowhere near big enough for Millennium Tower - that's a Burj Khalifa-scale project.

AoD

 

[maestro]

Agreed, but the size of these minuscule apartments is also an issue - and in addition, downtown intensification should include a downtown a relief line or transit improvements. Adding more and more people into an area with overcrowded transit is not a solution to traffic gridlock.

I had a conversation with a young lady yesterday who is 27 and has finally saved enough for a down-payment on a ($285,000 range) condo. The trouble is, the units she has seen so far are so small (very few even have a bedroom) she either has to give up the furniture that she has pre-purchased or received as gifts over the last few years (they won't fit) or move further out (and be forced to take the TTC that she hates) or look for work somewhere else (she is now looking in London and Kitchener for opportunities). Not a conversation I would have expected to have with a young, upwardly mobile well educated lady.

I think Toronto will increasingly find itself competing with smaller, more livable cities (better quality of life) rather than these young professionals surrendering and living in a unit so small they can't live a normal life.

And as a real estate agent, I show dozens and dozens of these units to disappointed people every week and many knuckle under and buy a unit - but many are not happy about it and I expect they will be looking to the suburbs once they start having children or the frustration with these claustrophobic units becomes unbearable. Longer commutes yes but these people will also be looking to other cities as well to reduce those commute times.

Design is not just about a building's exterior appearance or cladding.

My problem isn't square footage. I happily lived in a well designed 450 square foot when I was younger. (I wouldn't now though.) The problem is layout. There is so much wasted space. A 550 square foot condo shouldn't have hallways and so many of them do. I think that reflects the depth of today's units. Floor plates are considerably wider compared to the towers of 20 plus years ago. Perhaps it's impossible to design today's units without hallways. It's hard to find a unit in an older building where you have rooms aside from kitchens and bathrooms without a window. It's fairly common today.

Anyways, I find too much is being crammed into today's layout. Less is more. The depth of the units and fewer windows only increases the cramp feeling.

 

[stjames2queenwest]

I'm young and from rural Ontario, for me it's live downtown or move back to the country, suburbia is a horrible compromise for myself personally. I must say I hate struggling all the time here. But I suppose I don't hate it enough to leave. Developments are one of the things that I love about the city, I love the rate it grows, even if I can't afford to live in any of these projects at this point.

 

[flonicky]

suburbia is a horrible compromise for myself personally.

I'm old and from rural Ontario and have lived in suburbia a couple of times. It combined the worst qualities of city and country with few of the benefits. I would certainly move back to the country before ever going to the suburbs again.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Seriously One, Keesmaat and city planners follow the current planning act do they not? If the guidelines change, then so will the approved heights, density etc.

The operative word being "guidelines". Guidelines are just something to take into consideration. They can be applied or not applied to whatever extent you like based on a case-by-case evaluation. First Cdn Place was built despite a 45-foot height limit.

Secondly, is this not supposed to be a significantly more expensive tower?

Relative to what? Toronto's condo boom is based on cheap prices. Because of competition, I think we get a lot for our condo buck here in Toronto, but we don't get truly stunning architecture, design and fit'n finish, cause that costs big money. Trump was expensive (by Toronto standards) and look how pretty that turned out.

 

[sixrings]

suburbia is a horrible compromise for myself personally.

I grew up at Midland and Finch and the closest thing walking distance was a plaza. I did take hour long hikes to Scarborough Town Centre partially because I like walking and partially because I am cheap. My in laws live near Cooksville in Mississauga. I will say that when I visit I walk to Square One all the time and there seems to be good transit and I do like the parks. My experience has changed to think that there are some pockets of Suburbia which are definitely liveable. However one may just counter that what I am arguing as suburbia is the boundaries of downtown Mississauga. I could live near Bayview Village or High Park without a problem either.

 

[Tewder]

I'm young and from rural Ontario, for me it's live downtown or move back to the country, suburbia is a horrible compromise for myself personally. I must say I hate struggling all the time here. But I suppose I don't hate it enough to leave. Developments are one of the things that I love about the city, I love the rate it grows, even if I can't afford to live in any of these projects at this point.

Suburbia is an awful option for the young and/or single, and categorically so. For the married with children, however, it often makes sense, as unhip as it may be. It's affordable and it provides a lifestyle that's more in line with typical family priorities (sorry, i just don't know too many young couples raising families who are dining at Black Hoof or attending the opera with a frequency that necessitates a cramped and overpriced residence downtown). Another option to these extremes is 'small town' Ontario where these days you can find revitalized/revitalizing quasi-urban central cores (farmer's market, local restaurants/pubs, walkable town centres etc).

 

[salsa]

Hahaha. If you think thats bad try living in my situation.... 10 minute DRIVE to the nearest restaurant/town, 1 hour and 10 minutes from downtown Toronto, 45 minutes to the GTA, no neighbours within 500ft of my house, total seclusion on 50 acres. Without a car, you aren't seeing anyone with the exception of some deer and wild turkey

Many of my friends wouldn't be able to live here if you paid them, they feel instant loneliness, boredom, and isolation. Those are the type of people that belong in downtown Toronto. It's a lifestyle. And you pay for that lifestyle. There are pros and cons for both types of lifestyle. But this isn't really the thread for it, so I'll stop here.

Just curious, where exactly is that place you describe?

 

[buildup]

I'm not sure there is much difference between living downtown and having easy access to downtown. For example if can get downtown by TTC in 15-20 minutes, what is the difference? Years ago I lived at St Clair & Glenholme in a basement apartment and I felt I was close enough to everything. If some 30 year-old earning $60k wants to step out his front door onto King Street perhaps that isn't reasonable?