junctionist

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It's a vanity project, but a beautiful one. I just hope it lives up to its promise of quality and doesn't bankrupt him before it tops out.

I don't think he'd be building it if it weren't profitable. He's replacing 3-storey buildings with 94 storeys of expensive condos. The units have been sold and Mizrahi got funding.

I suspect a myth of unprofitability may be advanced by mediocre builders who assume you can't be profitable unless you value engineer every design detail to the point of delivering architectural garbage.
 

whatever

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I suspect a myth of unprofitability may be advanced by mediocre builders who assume you can't be profitable unless you value engineer every design detail to the point of delivering architectural garbage.
I suspect you're not an estimator?

The margins for most players in the sector are way tighter than a layman might realize. It's not impossible to make money on an attractive building, but you need to have either deep pockets or a certain appetite for risk. And it's not entirely the fault of developers; a lot of it falls on purchasers. The average investor might glance at the renderings, but they really don't care if the building is clad in precast or masonry or windowwall or curved curtainwall. Investors are more driven by Miele appliances and granite countertops. So if you're the developer do you pay for the upgraded cladding, knowing you can't recoup the cost by charging a premium for it, or do you pay for the Toto toilets where you can pocket an extra $1000 per washroom on the upgrade?

Not directing at you personally, but sometimes it feels like there's a lot of unserious criticism of developers on these forums. They're honestly not a bunch of mustachioed villains cackling with glee at the grey spandrel they're raining down upon the fair citizens of Toronto. It's just a spreadsheet at the end of the day.
 

C-mac

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So, Sam Mizrahi has just hired a new lobbyist/consultant for the purpose of getting the requested height increase here.

From the Lobbyist Registry:

Details for Subject Matter Registration: SM32374​


Decision(s) or issue(s) to be lobbied

1-11 Bloor Street West and 768-784 Yonge Street - Zoning By-law Amendment request for increased height.

Nice!!
 

C-mac

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do we know if the next floor will be similarly slow? Or is it only this level with the nuclear-bunker level of concrete?

I'm no expert and don't pretend to have any inside knowledge, but so far since I started following these projects, it seems once they get past the first few floors, the pace definitely picks up. Look at 160 Front. It was moving at a turtles paces, and now that thing is flying up.

Maybe Anthonylipson can shed some light on this.
 
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Bjays92

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I'm no expert and don't pretend to have any inside knowledge, but so far since I started following these projects, it seem once they get past the few floors, the pace definitely picks up. Look at 160 Front. It was moving at a turtles paces, and now that thing is flying up.

Maybe Anthonylipson can shed some light on this.
This building is different from any other building in the city. While that doesn't necessarily mean it won't speed up, using other buildings as a barometer simply isn't applicable.

Anthony had already previously mentioned how the repeating floor plan here is extremely complicated, which leads me to think if it speeds up, it won't be dramatically like 160 front for example
 

smably

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I don't think he'd be building it if it weren't profitable. He's replacing 3-storey buildings with 94 storeys of expensive condos. The units have been sold and Mizrahi got funding.
You may be right, but who knows. I just remember reading about how Mizrahi couldn't get financing from any of the big banks, so he's probably paying an eye-watering amount of interest to some B-lenders. Meanwhile construction is going slowly, there's lots of complex engineering and atypical overhead (just the crane rental must have cost a lot), finishes are high-end and very expensive. And the land that that 3-storey building sat on didn't come cheap either -- didn't Mizrahi pay something like $300m for the assembly?

Don't get me wrong, I hope that the project succeeds. It just seems extremely expensive, and Mizrahi seems like the kind of guy who wants to build a legacy at any cost.
 

innsertnamehere

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I'm sure he's getting some sort of return here, but yea, probably not a great one. I'm not sure that's ever been his aim though.

The nature of development has always been that some projects make money head over heels and some don't, that's just the way it is. (Projects like King Toronto are plowing in the cash, while 159SW is probably losing money for Alterra, etc.).

Normally this isn't a big deal as most developers can handle a poorly performing project, but this project is such a leap up for Mizrahi from what he has otherwise been doing, it may be challenging.
 

Ottawan

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In terms of speed, I don't think it should be much of a surprise that the current level is taking so long. It is where the elevator core for the tower originates. This is the most complex floor in the entire building.

I think it will speed up just a bit through the rest of the hotel section, and then slow again at the first mechanical section. Above that first mechanical section, that is when we will see it begin to speed up for real, maybe even to the 1 floor / week that seems pretty typical in Toronto. But at the current rate, I doubt we will reach the condo section of the building for the better part of a year.

As speculation only, I do wonder if the retail might be opening as soon as that first mechanical section above the hotel has been completed. I also speculate that the hotel could be ready for occupancy before many of the condos. This speculation is solely based upon the fact that the mechanical is spread throughout the building, which to me suggests that lower portions could be useable before the entire tower is complete.
 

innsertnamehere

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how many pages des Rob Ford's Toronto have in the politics section? When that thread was going strong it was posting 20+ pages of posts a day.

Edit: 7,625 pages. I doubt anything is getting close to that any time soon LOL

 

Bjays92

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This will certainly pass all the others in the building thread. I have been following this recently for no good reason. It's already at #3 and we're still working on the podium.

I suspect however that Gehry Towers will surpass The One at some point as it is already top 6 or 5 and it's not even at groundbreaking yet.

As mentioned though, nothing is going to surpass some of the threads outside the buildings section
 

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