torontologist said:
The townhouses are unforgivable. Isn't that exactly the sort of thing our zoning regime is supposed to prevent? How did townhouses on BAY STREET get approved?!
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I don't see what the problem is. They're a part of the podium for the tower. It's not like they're standalone townhouses.
 
amnesiajune said:
I don't see what the problem is. They're a part of the podium for the tower. It's not like they're standalone townhouses.
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Because Bay Street is a major thoroughfare, and developments should have commercial space in the ground floor to support the dense population of residents and workers in the surrounding area. The vast majority of Bay Street is zoned Mixed Use for this reason.

Unfortunately, the lot this building stands on was formerly owned by U of T or a church, and is zoned for institutional use, so they were able to slap on some townhouses on the Bay frontage. The developer doesn't care about the neighbourhood, and went with the easiest/most profitable option to maximize profit. Providing retail space would have supported the liveability of the surrounding community.

The townhouses also look incredibly out of place and ruin the feel of the street.
 
torontologist said:
The developer doesn't care about the neighbourhood, and went with the easiest/most profitable option to maximize profit. Providing retail space would have supported the liveability of the surrounding community.
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I doubt it was a matter of money. Retail space is usually way more profitable than residential, especially in a high-profile area like Bay & Bloor. There's a reason why nearly every condo project, even in low-traffic areas, puts retail in their podiums.
 
amnesiajune said:
I doubt it was a matter of money. Retail space is usually way more profitable than residential, especially in a high-profile area like Bay & Bloor. There's a reason why nearly every condo project, even in low-traffic areas, puts retail in their podiums.
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Then they should have used that space as a widened sidewalk or POPS rather than jam in a bunch of ill-conceived townhomes. The fact that they can't sell them speaks volumes.
 
I agree that townhomes here were a mistake, but describing it as having killed the street is a little over-the-top. The residents here will no doubt patronize shops in the base of all of the surrounding buildings, on a stretch where over the past decade, retail turnover has been pretty high. If all of the retail at 1000 Bay fills up and thrives, and if the turnover slows down in other buildings in the area, great.

What I wonder now, is how long will it take the townhomes on Bay to sell before Pemberton goes back to the City looking to convert some or all of them for commercial purposes. That would be expensive, no doubt, but not likely less expensive than never selling them. Combine two of them, and you've probably got a pretty reasonable office for a small law firm, for example.

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interchange42 said:
I agree that townhomes here were a mistake, but describing it as having killed the street is a little over-the-top. The residents here will no doubt patronize shops in the base of all of the surrounding buildings, on a stretch where over the past decade, retail turnover has been pretty high. If all of the retail at 1000 Bay fills up and thrives, and if the turnover slows down in other buildings in the area, great.

What I wonder now, is how long will it take the townhomes on Bay to sell before Pemberton goes back to the City looking to convert some or all of them for commercial purposes. That would be expensive, no doubt, but not likely less expensive than never selling them. Combine two of them, and you've probably got a pretty reasonable office for a small law firm, for example.

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Good points, and the Britt will bring a whole bunch of new folks to the area, as well.
 
Dead or alive, I've never enjoyed walking on any stretch of Bay between Bloor and Queen. It's wretchedly ugly and I'm not sure how it can be fixed.
 
One great thing about walking on Bay St. is that the sidewalks for the most part are quite wide and therefore it is easier to walk home or to work using Bay St. than it is Yonge St. during peak hours.
 
isaidso said:
Dead or alive, I've never enjoyed walking on any stretch of Bay between Bloor and Queen. It's wretchedly ugly and I'm not sure how it can be fixed.
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That's interesting. I do know what you mean, but I actually disagree. There's something cavernous and empty about Bay St. that I find appealingly impersonal.
 
Miscreant said:
That's interesting. I do know what you mean, but I actually disagree. There's something cavernous and empty about Bay St. that I find appealingly impersonal.
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I walk that stretch every day and definitely feel a little bit of both sides. I do think, though, that this development is in one of the most desirable stretches anywhere in the area; the residents are very lucky to have both the small park-to-be immediately to the south of the towers and the existing green space to the southwest of the towers.

And, of course, a stroll through the adjoining U of T campus is one of the nicest in the city. I usually skip off of Bay at St. Joseph to head north up to Bloor through the campus, and it's downright bucolic.
 
interchange42 said:
I agree that townhomes here were a mistake, but describing it as having killed the street is a little over-the-top.
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I agree - they're certainly no worse than the brick wall that was there before. That being said however, it was definitely a mistake not to put retail units there, and I'm not surprised that they're struggling to sell. I certainly wouldn't want to pay top dollar to have my front door facing right onto Bay Street.
 
The price for the townhomes has just appreciated to $2.5M, due to the overwhelming demand I presume.

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