concrete_and_light

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This can work but unclear to me why the underground portion wouldn’t be more open to the elements.

I think it makes sense to have the foodhall/exhibition space sealed off from the elements — from a climate-control perspective to make it a year-round space but also from a Gardiner dirt from above perspective.
 

Amare

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Am I the only one wondering what would happen when the Gardiner's deck and support structure need to be replaced if this development was ever completed? How would one even work around all of that stuff below?
 

greenleaf

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Okay I get that @concrete_and_light but maybe if that is the case this shouldn’t be a food hall in this way.

In an effort to monetize every square inch down here, whoever is developing this is creating a space where there is no there there.

What if this space had retail/commercial around it but it had a central open space with a year round skating rink, a basketball court, or a skateboard park, that had some bleacher areas for people to sit?
 

concrete_and_light

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What if this space had retail/commercial around it but it had a central open space with a year round skating rink, a basketball court, or a skateboard park, that had some bleacher areas for people to sit?

I'm not 100% sure those types of uses would draw more people than a foodhall, but this opinion is very biased by the fact that I was biking by that area the other day and looking for somewhere to stop and get some food and perplexed that there weren't more options, food trucks, etc. down by the lake around there.

I also could see the food hall being used frequently by residents in the buildings nearby as a place to pick up lunch or dinner, especially since a lot of the newly redeveloped areas around here and north around Fort York don't have a lot of retail at grade etc. to accommodate food service uses.

But I definitely see the point, and the foodhall might suffer from people down by the lake not knowing it's there. They'll need some good signage or marketing or hopefully some individually popular trendy spots in order to draw people in. It does feel like it would be a bit annoying to go all the way down into the basement for food vs. having potential food vendors be on the main ground level more easily visible and accessible.
 

AlbertC

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I'm still on the fence about this right now as it could go either way in terms of whether it'll be successful. At a glance, it reminds me of the retail concourse levels inside MTR stations in Hong Kong, which are often underground and all does very well. However, this doesn't have a connection to mass transit. What it does have though is a sizeable critical mass of immediate population in Cityplace and the nearby condo communities in the area. The Stackt market on Bathurst also gives a bit of a glimpse into how unconventional retail spaces can do.

Otherwise, I do agree with a comment made earlier about the retail basement at Aura being a warning sign for what is essentially dead end retail space. Where attracting customer pedestrian flow isn't always a walk in the park. What does seem to be at an advantage here though is better design initiative, at least from what's depicted in the planning/rendering stage. Overall, I remain curious on how this moves along and how it gets executed.
 

Northern Light

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Things that perhaps someone can clarify for me, as I haven't seen them discussed.

Concord is the proponent; but who is the owner of the land under that section of the Gardiner? I would have assumed it was the City.
I didn't notice any mention of the City or CreateTO as partners here. I would find it peculiar if the City wasn't the owner of this land; though
I suppose it could be on an easement or long-term lease of some kind.

I assume a formal arrangement on liability related to the Gardiner would be required, with the proponent having to assume responsibility for any damage thereto, as well as the risks
of any falling debris.

When heavy maintenance is required, I would think this area would be subject to a remarkable amount of noise, dust and vibration.
 
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hbf92

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Since we're stuck with the damn thing, this needs to happen throughout the entire extent of the Gardiner. Also why is it so hard to do have a decent public realm situation under it. Off topic, but what happened to that WT proejct? The state it's in is so bad it would cost so little just to at least clean it up and put some landscaping. So it's not so depressing to walk/bike/drive under.
 

ML555

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I applaud any and all meaningful attempts to add retail (god knows how many condo towers have utterly failed to generate meaningful ground floor retail); agreed the execution here may be lacking, but have we become so cynical that when someone is actually filling in the empty space under the gardiner (which will have plenty of other opportunities to do better at another location) we dismiss it? Doubtful Concord will do a good job, and the lack of transit connection which usually drives good dense-retail like this (as others have pointed out) does make it seem odd, however I would rather this be a good example of the right direction and am grateful that the 'admired' art installation sitting there now will be repurposed.
 

WislaHD

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Front page article helps explain some of what is planned here
 

generalcanada

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as someone who lives in the panorama building, ******** yess. the courtyard art (big jacks?) is useless so this is very much welcome there isnt too much retail around, not like it's a problem but using more empty space is always great
 

abovegrade

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I think I'd have these 2 concerns

1) It turns into Aura's basement; an expensive, and unsuccessful venture that just creates, at best, an under-utilized, wasted space, and at worst, somewhere dangerous or abandoned.

2) It's 'successful' but in so doing, sucks any retail life away from the street-level.

To me, (the underground portion) looks like a lose-lose proposition.
suck retail from what streets though? From the few cafes & soulless vibe of city place? If this becomes successful, perhaps it gives people more options rather than just the well (especially if downtown keeps growing).
 

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