DtTO
Active Member
+1
I've been arguing that Toronto needs to keep its commercial tax more competitive with the suburbs for years. Do you have ratios for other major North American cities, by any chance?
+1
I've been arguing that Toronto needs to keep its commercial tax more competitive with the suburbs for years. Do you have ratios for other major North American cities, by any chance?
taal
Senior Member
When I used to care about this more, and tried to bring it up (to no avail, sorry I'm not referring to this form, rather local councilors and the like) I did a comparison with Montreal / Vancouver and Calgary, unfortunately I can't find the results off hand; But I recall essentially what I stated above i.e. the absolute rate (for commercial taxation) isn't important, and is actually higher in various Canadian cities (e.g. Vancouver, Waterloo area, ...) but said cities have a very similar rate throughout the region, which is very much not the case for Toronto and the GTA.
I couldn't really find comparable statistics with US cities, the taxes are different in general there, but I'm sure a similar comparison could be made, and I think a similar result would be reached (i.e. Toronto is special, in the sense that the difference between the city and the suburbs is very high).
I couldn't really find comparable statistics with US cities, the taxes are different in general there, but I'm sure a similar comparison could be made, and I think a similar result would be reached (i.e. Toronto is special, in the sense that the difference between the city and the suburbs is very high).
It seems to me with downtown commercial construction exceeding that of the 905 that taxes don't seem such a big issue do they?
taal
Senior Member
I wasn't talking about downtown though, I was talking about the rest of the city.
Net rental rates are naturally higher downtown so it makes it much less of a factor (i.e. tenants are already willing to pay more to locate downtown). But I would I pay more to locate 5 min either side of Steeles (just for example).
Some have argued even downtown it has had an impact. There was a long drought of office construction and prices had something to do with that. Now there's a push do to younger works who want to locate downtown regardless.
Net rental rates are naturally higher downtown so it makes it much less of a factor (i.e. tenants are already willing to pay more to locate downtown). But I would I pay more to locate 5 min either side of Steeles (just for example).
Some have argued even downtown it has had an impact. There was a long drought of office construction and prices had something to do with that. Now there's a push do to younger works who want to locate downtown regardless.
isaidso
Senior Member
An office building like this would do wonders for non-traditional office neighbourhoods. Opposite Maple Leaf Gardens on Church? On the west side of Jarvis opposite Allan Gardens? Toronto's not ready for office at Sherbourne and Queen, but I'd eventually like to see the whole core mixed use. A building like this would be a huge impetus for revitalization in these areas. I'm not a fan of sticking all our office buildings in one place.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
isaidso:
re: Sherbourne and Queen
Maybe not right at that spot, but there are signs of CBD expansion given the proposal at King East, and various Allied proposals in the King/Queen West area.
AoD
re: Sherbourne and Queen
Maybe not right at that spot, but there are signs of CBD expansion given the proposal at King East, and various Allied proposals in the King/Queen West area.
AoD
isaidso
Senior Member
There certainly are encouraging signs everywhere. My biggest criticism of the downtown core has been the noticeable drop off in the quality of buildings as one leaves the CBD. Of course that has heaps to do with the concentration of expensive office buildings there and cheaper residential elsewhere. That said, we'd do well to accelerate away from the assumption that offices must go where we've always put them.
Put them downtown, but as long as they're within 5 minutes walk of a subway station I don't see the issue other than an embedded aversion to them outside of the CBD. Sherbourne and Queen may be far fetched today, but there are already signs that the area directly south has already sufficiently moved upscale. Maybe the DRL or a Queen subway is all that stands in the way of this area really taking off.
It's half way between the CBD and the Pan American Games developments. It's bound to fill in.
androiduk
Senior Member
Application: Zoning Review Status: Not Started
Location: 171 FRONT ST W
TORONTO ON
Ward 20: Trinity-Spadina
Application#: 13 229613 ZPR 00 ZR Accepted Date: Sep 3, 2013
Project: Non-Residential Building New Building
Description: Proposal to remove the western portion of the existing skywalk building and construct a new 46 storey office building. Proposal also includes the removal of the existing glass barrel vault at the eastern portion of the skywalk and construct new roof and wall enclosure along with a new raised exterior plaza over station street and interior renovations at 20 York St.
Location: 171 FRONT ST W
TORONTO ON
Ward 20: Trinity-Spadina
Application#: 13 229613 ZPR 00 ZR Accepted Date: Sep 3, 2013
Project: Non-Residential Building New Building
Description: Proposal to remove the western portion of the existing skywalk building and construct a new 46 storey office building. Proposal also includes the removal of the existing glass barrel vault at the eastern portion of the skywalk and construct new roof and wall enclosure along with a new raised exterior plaza over station street and interior renovations at 20 York St.
Huh? Wha? We're back on here suddenly?! Can't wait to see the latest version, and at 46 storeys too, which would make it the tallest office tower under construction in town if it sails through. The plaza over Station Street is an interesting idea too…
42
42
CanadianNational
Senior Member
Ugh. Cellphone. But there ya be:
CityPlaceN1
Senior Member
Great news if it proceeds.
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
sMT:
Well, at least it would appear part of the barrel roof would be saved - unlike the original proposal where the whole thing was to be removed. Not sure if that is an "improvement" over building anew.
I wish they could commission someone like Sarah Hall for a full length stained glass piece for the entire glazed area - it would have been spectacular.
AoD
Well, at least it would appear part of the barrel roof would be saved - unlike the original proposal where the whole thing was to be removed. Not sure if that is an "improvement" over building anew.
I wish they could commission someone like Sarah Hall for a full length stained glass piece for the entire glazed area - it would have been spectacular.
AoD
taal
Senior Member
No no, don't get too excited ... if you caught the quarterly report from Allied (sorry I should have posted after watching): You'll see what they are going is getting the municipal approvals for this site (along with several others i.e. the 2 on King they have).
No marketing has commenced yet, that may or may not start sometime in 2014 - after which, of course, they'll need to attract a tenant. Which may be difficult given there is a lot of space available in a couple other developments that are already under construction at this time.
Given the location though this will be very desirable, I imagine if they start marketing in 2014, and there are no new projects, they could secure a tenant in a year or so and start in 2015 (or later).
The problem is there are several other *new* projects that may also start (marking that is) ... engn the Front street site / Bay street site (where the GO station may move to).
No marketing has commenced yet, that may or may not start sometime in 2014 - after which, of course, they'll need to attract a tenant. Which may be difficult given there is a lot of space available in a couple other developments that are already under construction at this time.
Given the location though this will be very desirable, I imagine if they start marketing in 2014, and there are no new projects, they could secure a tenant in a year or so and start in 2015 (or later).
The problem is there are several other *new* projects that may also start (marking that is) ... engn the Front street site / Bay street site (where the GO station may move to).
skorji
Active Member
A 2015 construction start would still be pretty exciting. Personally, I wasn't expecting anything sooner. To me, this represents a continuation to the steady / on-going growth of the downtown office supply... a reassuring sign that the market is still strong.