buildup

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Well, not just ours, I'll betcha, But at least it's kind of out of sight, out of mind out there--a little like Aqueduct in NYC.

I tend to refer to such places as "where 20th century North American mass culture goes to die". Y'know, all the pre-Interweb joie de vivre about network television and Top 40 and all of that--its zombie remains lurk here, as do the zombies who never really got over the passing of said old order...

Its funny how we extol $200 dining experiences consisting of fine wines and marbled red meat. Afterwards you're slightly drunk, significantly less healthy and 24 hours later have nothing to show for it. No-one worries about people running up their debt through consumerism. No-one worries that profits go to business owners instead of govt coffers. A certain percentage of the population is addictive, no fault of their own. If you take away the casino its not like they're going to put their money into an RRSP.
 

toto

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Hopefully this casino isn't approved. If it is, I would like the city to demand that the park and public spaces get built before the casino's operating license is granted. And that the park is nothing short of spectacular on all fronts.
 

Hanlansboy

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Well, we'll find out either way some time today. As we speak city council is debating the issue, with all the proposals at steak, I suspect they'll approve it, I hope they do, provided that they take ALL the factors into account, not just a place to blow our money. They need to ensure, if approved, the developer help offset the costs of improved transit, parking, road construction and other infrastructure related issues, we'll know shortly!
 

TOareaFan

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Well, we'll find out either way some time today. As we speak city council is debating the issue, with all the proposals at steak, I suspect they'll approve it, I hope they do, provided that they take ALL the factors into account, not just a place to blow our money. They need to ensure, if approved, the developer help offset the costs of improved transit, parking, road construction and other infrastructure related issues, we'll know shortly!

Just so that I understand.....what is being discussed today is "casinos in general"....not this specific proposal...is that right?
 

RC8

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I disagree with you, but even following your logic shows that a casinos effects (good AND bad) would be overwhelmingly regional, not 'local.' Keeping Mr.Pickering, it wouldn't matter at all whether he bankrupted himself in downtown Toronto or Casino Rama. The effects are regional and occur regardless of where a casino is located.

You're picking an irrelevant 'community' though. The relevant community here isn't downtown Toronto, it's the Province which will internalize most of the costs and benefits.

What if the MTCC's IMMEDIATE area supported a Casino (mostly hotels and tourist traps, not impossible to imagine they would)? Would that make the proposal good? No, obviously not since they wouldn't be internalizing all of the casino's costs.

The relevant 'community' is the one which internalizes most of the costs, which in this case is the Province and not the local ward.

You make good points, but you assume the province wouldn't be any more likely to download costs to the City of Toronto if the casino was located here. If the province treated Toronto like they treat every other municipality in the GTA, the TTC would get provincial funding, we'd have an equivalent number of hospital beds per capita as the rest of Ontario, etc.

I believe that if the casino is located elsewhere the Province is much more likely to internalise costs, even if these involve handouts to Toronto. By building the casino right downtown, I fear (with a long history of examples to cite) that the province would not take full responsibility for most negative impacts. 'You let this happen', they'll say, 'you wanted the profit too', they'll argue, and we'll end up with a very small share of the benefits and a large share of the costs after it's all said and done.

Toronto already offers disproportionate amounts of aid to those who end up in poverty as a result of drug-addiction, alcohol addiction (while the province profits), and gambling addiction (while the province profits). If the province hasn't stepped up yet, I don't see them being of much help once we shoulder a greater share of gambling in the region within our borders.

If the province is going to force the casino onto downtown residents, I demand they come up with a plan which guarantees we won't have to deal with the costs without reaping the benefits. That's the bottom-line. I actually do trust them to protect the rest of Ontario.
 

TOareaFan

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You make good points, but you assume the province wouldn't be any more likely to download costs to the City of Toronto if the casino was located here. If the province treated Toronto like they treat every other municipality in the GTA, the TTC would get provincial funding, we'd have an equivalent number of hospital beds per capita as the rest of Ontario, etc.

Do municipal transit systems in other parts of the province get funding that the TTC does not? (honest question). As for hospital beds...I happen to live in a municipality that has 1 bed for every 947 residents (2011 census pop.)....for Toronto to have the same number of beds per capita, all that has to happen is to close every hospital that is not St. Josephs, St. Mikes, NY General, Toronto General, Toronto Western, Scarborough General and Etobicoke General and find 145 beds in those to close.

Toronto may be underfunded by the Province....perhaps....but they are not alone in that regard.
 

ptbotrmpfn

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it only makes sense to have one and at this location. just saying. to say it will cause more people to have gambling problems is a cop out. those who have a gambling problem shouldnt reck the fun for those of us who do have control. and know not to bring more then you can spend. as welll as to leave your bank cards at home when they go. like i do. i spend what i can then leave. not bringing my debit cards or credit cards when i gamble. it to tempting to keep trying for that "big win" it takes modivation and self control. plus there are centres out there for gambling addiction. attach a centre to the casino. and or make rules to stop repeat gamblers going dialy. or something. i cant say where the money should go that it makes. i dont live the so its not fare for that oppinion from me. but casinos do need to be held responsible for repeaters and to keep watch on whos addicted. if people are spending 100's of dollars to gamble away then they have way to much money to waist. and should spend it towards thier own help.
 
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TrickyRicky

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They may have already decided or are deciding as we speak but I would rate the probablity in this order: Highest - defer this issue until it dies, Second highest - Not allow a casino in Toronto, Third highest - study the issue further but rule out any location but Exhibition place, Fourth highest - consider a Casino at this location. In otherwords, sorry guys but this proposal as envision in this thread is in my opinion a dead duck.
 

buildup

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I haven't seen anything yet that would cause me to rule out the possibility of it being at the Front Street site.
 

Hanlansboy

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Either way, there will be a new casino in the GTA.... our loss is someone else's gain
Watch Mississauga, Markham, or even Vaughan jump all over this

Nope, it's not going to be our loss, but our gain, approved!!! Can't believe it, with so much opposition, I was certain council would reject it, now......which bid will they accept? I hope Oxford, time will tell.
 

jaycola

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Glad to hear the casino has been approved for the city of Toronto proper. Let's just hope they approve it being built downtown. While I still prefer the EX site, the MTCC proposal does demonstrate that there may be other options within the city where an exciting proposal could be put forth. Toronto is better off in the driver seat on this one rather than let it be built in Vaughan or Mississauga where there will be social costs still but without any of the benifits.
 

Tewder

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Wealth-redistribution should be done by taxation of income and used to significantly improve the quality of life of those in need.

You MUST also be opposed to legal cigarettes and alcohol then too, right? I certainly hope you don't ever touch either of them because based on your position here you'd be just about the biggest hypocrite around these parts!


I tend to refer to such places as "where 20th century North American mass culture goes to die". Y'know, all the pre-Interweb joie de vivre about network television and Top 40 and all of that--its zombie remains lurk here, as do the zombies who never really got over the passing of said old order...


... ya' but it's post-interweb irony that makes said 'old order' kinda cool, in many circles... and for them, the casino is as much about addiction and hard-core gambling as the Chippendales for hen-night brides-to-be are about raunchy sex.
 

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