[Woodbridge_Heights]

Right, and they would gain a lot more customers than those that they would lose.

What is the goal of this transit line? It could provide rapid transit to a huge part of Toronto, or it could be a premium service only for those heading to the airport, with fares so expensive that very few would use it every day (the article said at least $15).

It could be the western DRL with very little cost except subsidizing the tickets like the rest of the transit system.

The goal of this transit line is to get people from the downtown core to the airport as quickly as possible. GO Kitchener runs parallel to this line and should provide the rapid transit portion.

 

[TOareaFan]

Right, and they would gain a lot more customers than those that they would lose.

What is the goal of this transit line? It could provide rapid transit to a huge part of Toronto, or it could be a premium service only for those heading to the airport, with fares so expensive that very few would use it every day (the article said at least $15).

It could be the western DRL with very little cost except subsidizing the tickets like the rest of the transit system.

The GO line could be your western DRL and still allow the UPX to operate as a premium service.

The goal of this line was always to be a premium express service connecting Union and Pearson. It was only intended to have one intermediate stop (Bloor) but was forced to build a stop at Weston ....a stop which will, likely, generate very little traffic in either direction.

 

[TOareaFan]

This isn't too bad of an idea actually.

It has been floated around a lot on here but does not seem to be on anyone's radar outside of this board.

Aside from serving the airport from both directions, the other real advantage is that it would offer a clear choice to the UPX. A regular GO fare to Malton but with the inconvenience of extra stops, no wifi, slightly less comfortable trains and having to shuttle to the terminals versus paying the premium fare for a higher level of service and direct to terminal 1 service.

 

[rbt]

Right, and they would gain a lot more customers than those that they would lose.

What is the goal of this transit line? It could provide rapid transit to a huge part of Toronto, or it could be a premium service only for those heading to the airport, with fares so expensive that very few would use it every day (the article said at least $15).

It could be the western DRL with very little cost except subsidizing the tickets like the rest of the transit system.

There are tons of tracks on that corridor. Nothing prevents GO from running their standard service every 15 minutes too. Extend the Finch LRT to allow for a transfer (Woodbine to T1) and you've got a low cost option for employees TTC (LRT from Finch West statoin), a mid-cost fast option for locals (GO Transit from Union/Brampton), and a premium service for tourists/business people. Tourists will almost always pay extra for a reduction in complexity, business people for a reduction in time.

Very few airport employees live within walking distance of Union Station. There needs to be more than 1 way to get to the airport for more than 1 type of customer. Much of Yorkville seems to take cabs to the airport; I'm curious if they will use the Bloor stop instead.


Demanding 1 solution for everybody isn't going to be a good solution to anybody.

 

[ehlow]

There are tons of tracks on that corridor. Nothing prevents GO from running their standard service every 15 minutes too. Extend the people mover or Finch LRT and you've got a low cost option for employees and a premium service for tourists/business people.

Very few airport employees live within walking distance of Union Station. There needs to be more than 1 way to get to the airport.

OK fair enough.

 

[gweed123]

There is a much simpler solution........Malton. Find some way (my prefered is to extend the airport people mover...but there may be others) to connect Malton GO station to the airport and now you have solved the very real problem/opportunity you identify and the issue people have about the UPX not being "public transit"......every GO train on the KW line would then be an option for airport travel from either direction.

I agree. The People Mover option seems to be the one that can solve the highest number of problems with the least amount of additional infrastructure. Extend the People Mover to Malton Station and Renforth Gateway, and have GO connections to the north, and TTC and MiWay connections to the south. It would be less expensive that extending the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, and would provide nearly the same benefit. It would also save MiWay from having to serve the airport directly, as they could just dump any airport-bound passengers at Renforth Gateway.

 

[TOareaFan]

I agree. The People Mover option seems to be the one that can solve the highest number of problems with the least amount of additional infrastructure. Extend the People Mover to Malton Station and Renforth Gateway, and have GO connections to the north, and TTC and MiWay connections to the south. It would be less expensive that extending the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, and would provide nearly the same benefit. It would also save MiWay from having to serve the airport directly, as they could just dump any airport-bound passengers at Renforth Gateway.

Exactly, since we were talking about the GO/UPX on the KW line I did not mention it but, yes, you are absolutely right...when redoing/extending the people mover it would be at both ends and would create two off-airport transit hubs as you describe.

Also, and I have said this before, I find it quite stunning that GO has never experimented with/tried the concept of having a GO bus at Malton meeting every incoming train (in either direction) as an extension of their service on the line into the airport. It would provide an immediate public transit option to the airport for many people and allow them to gauge interest in a GO-level service to the airport.

It is bizarre how many GO buses meet GO trains at their various stations to connect/extend service....but no one has thought "we could actually use the same method to make the airport part of the service area of the KW-Malton-Union service"

 

[gweed123]

Exactly, since we were talking about the GO/UPX on the KW line I did not mention it but, yes, you are absolutely right...when redoing/extending the people mover it would be at both ends and would create two off-airport transit hubs as you describe.

I just think it would be so much easier to navigate, especially for tourists, if they just have to follow the signs to the PM while in the airport, and then once they get to the PM, have an attendant there to answer questions. "Eglinton LRT and Mississauga Transitway to the right, Kitchener GO line (Downtown Toronto) and Finch West LRT to the left". And yes, I do believe that if this was implemented, it would push for an extension of the Finch West LRT to Malton GO.

 

[BMO]

I agree. The People Mover option seems to be the one that can solve the highest number of problems with the least amount of additional infrastructure. Extend the People Mover to Malton Station and Renforth Gateway, and have GO connections to the north, and TTC and MiWay connections to the south. It would be less expensive that extending the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, and would provide nearly the same benefit. It would also save MiWay from having to serve the airport directly, as they could just dump any airport-bound passengers at Renforth Gateway.

Anybody know if the People Mover could even handle the capacity that dumping GO, TTC and Miway onto it? Don't forget it also handles the parking customers at the airport as well. I'm skeptical of whether sufficient capacity and frequencies could be obtained with a cable system like this. Unless they change it to a system where the trains clamp on and off of a constantly moving cable a la San Francisco.

 

[TOareaFan]

Anybody know if the People Mover could even handle the capacity that dumping GO, TTC and Miway onto it? Don't forget it also handles the parking customers at the airport as well. I'm skeptical of whether sufficient capacity and frequencies could be obtained with a cable system like this. Unless they change it to a system where the trains clamp on and off of a constantly moving cable a la San Francisco.

Not sure of current capacity but San Francisco is what I think of when I envision this. At that airport, you pretty much take the internal tram to everywhere (public transit, car rental agencies, parking lots).

 

[gweed123]

Anybody know if the People Mover could even handle the capacity that dumping GO, TTC and Miway onto it? Don't forget it also handles the parking customers at the airport as well. I'm skeptical of whether sufficient capacity and frequencies could be obtained with a cable system like this. Unless they change it to a system where the trains clamp on and off of a constantly moving cable a la San Francisco.

The ridership to and from the airport is pretty constant, so it doesn't need to have a high peak capacity. It just needs to have a decent frequency, which is where I think the current system would run into problems. The cars themselves are fine, it's just if the line is extended the system may not allow for multiple cars to run in the same direction. I would think that 4 trains on the system at any one point would cover the frequency nicely.

I would think it would need to be retrofit (possibly using a single or paired Mark III ICTS or something like that) in order to handle the frequency. Possibly a system similar to the one in Tampa (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...A_people_mover.jpg/800px-TPA_people_mover.jpg).

 

[BMO]

The ridership to and from the airport is pretty constant, so it doesn't need to have a high peak capacity. It just needs to have a decent frequency, which is where I think the current system would run into problems. The cars themselves are fine, it's just if the line is extended the system may not allow for multiple cars to run in the same direction. I would think that 4 trains on the system at any one point would cover the frequency nicely.

I would think it would need to be retrofit (possibly using a single or paired Mark III ICTS or something like that) in order to handle the frequency. Possibly a system similar to the one in Tampa (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...A_people_mover.jpg/800px-TPA_people_mover.jpg).

Is Airport Ridership consistent from a passenger point of view or from a commuter point of view? I would assume that if the PM could hook up with local transit we may see more pronounced peak loads from workers leaving and coming during shift changes and the obvious peak travel times in the afternoon.

I think if we are ever going to see an expansion it won't be using powered vehicles it would just be an expansion on the existing cable system with upgraded cable motors and more flexible trains that could run more than one in each direction.

 

[TFC]

I see a lot of issues arising from using the People Mover as public transit, as the People Mover is owned by GTAA and offered as a free service. Wouldn't extending the People Mover to both Malton and Renforth see it compete with Brampton Transit, the TTC and MiWay for some stretches of Airport Road?
Unless Metrolinx assumes control of the People Mover, I'm not sure how it could continue operating as a free system and be extended both north and south.

 

[TOareaFan]

I see a lot of issues arising from using the People Mover as public transit, as the People Mover is owned by GTAA and offered as a free service. Wouldn't extending the People Mover to both Malton and Renforth see it compete with Brampton Transit, the TTC and MiWay for some stretches of Airport Road?
Unless Metrolinx assumes control of the People Mover, I'm not sure how it could continue operating as a free system and be extended both north and south.

I don't see it having any stops between it's current terminus and Malton GO.....so it could continue to be free

 

[ShonTron]

Coming from Kitchener/Guelph/etc., your best bet is probably getting off at Bramalea and either transferring to the hourly 34 bus (serves the bus loop going inbound) or walking to Bramalea Road and taking the BT 115 - runs every 30 min Mon-Sat, every hour Sundays.