[nfitz]

Got the cost from here: http://stevemunro.ca/?p=6440

And he got it from the Stintz aborted OneCity plan.

All this proves is Karen Stintz got her numbers wrong. The most recent cost estimates were the 2010 estimates TTC did for Metrolinx (when TTC was still managing all the new LRT lines), and the cost was $767 million in 2008 $.

Which is a lot closer in line with Finch.

On the other hand, Transit City has always used a 4% construction price index, and if you do that, and you end up building it in 2033, then $767 million in 2008 $ is about $2 billion in 2033 $. But I wouldn't give Stintz that much credit ...

 

[ehlow]

And he got it from the Stintz aborted OneCity plan.

All this proves is Karen Stintz got her numbers wrong. The most recent cost estimates were the 2010 estimates TTC did for Metrolinx (when TTC was still managing all the new LRT lines), and the cost was $767 million in 2008 $.

Which is a lot closer in line with Finch.

On the other hand, Transit City has always used a 4% construction price index, and if you do that, and you end up building it in 2033, then $767 million in 2008 $ is about $2 billion in 2033 $. But I wouldn't give Stintz that much credit ...

Alright. I was wrong, thanks.

 

[MetroMan]

A lot of this discussion about the price of UPX is going to be moot. Partner airlines are going to get volume pricing deals to offer free or low price downtown check in. Westjet is one airline I heard is considering this to compete with Porter.

Some downtown hotels already offer free airport shuttles to drive bookings. I imagine some of them will offer the same service by negotiating volume pricing with UPX.

 

[nfitz]

A lot of this discussion about the price of UPX is going to be moot. Partner airlines are going to get volume pricing deals to offer free or low price downtown check in. Westjet is one airline I heard is considering this to compete with Porter.

Wait, the same airlines that charge me $25 to check my bag are suddenly going to buy me a train ticket?

Perhaps for flights to Montreal. But I'll believe it when I see it for International flights or Vancouver.

 

[Platform 27]

Yes.....i guess what the big move pdf linked above shows us what "part of the $385 million....." means. Would be interesting to know where the rest went.....my bet would be corridor acquisitions.....but likely only ML knows.

IIRC, it wound up getting blended with provincial money and spread across the GO network as part of the "GO TRIP" program... this garbled news release from 2004 I dug up seems to be the closest to the intended list from near the outset.

It looks the biggest ticket items were the triple-tracking of some of those key chunks of Lakeshore and the Barrie and Stouffville grade separations with the CN York sub. Like someone else said, I think only a fairly small bit of seed money for the Georgetown line trickled out of that overall pot.

Weird to think you could make a case that the key political enabler of 30 minute Lakeshore GO train service was actually Jean Chretien.

 

[gweed123]

A lot of this discussion about the price of UPX is going to be moot. Partner airlines are going to get volume pricing deals to offer free or low price downtown check in. Westjet is one airline I heard is considering this to compete with Porter.

Some downtown hotels already offer free airport shuttles to drive bookings. I imagine some of them will offer the same service by negotiating volume pricing with UPX.

Interesting. Personally, I'd be more interested to see what Via does. A lot of people drive from London or Kingston or wherever for international flights from Pearson. If Via manages to offer a cost-competitive Via ticket + UPX ticket in comparison with parking at the airport for a week, I think that could potentially grab a lot of those travellers.

 

[rbt]

I don't think there ever were funds committed.....I believe they selected a partner in SNC-L and they were expected to come up with a business plan for funding/building/operating the line ...at which time the feds would approve it and commit funds to it......I don't think SNC-L ever got to the stage where they had a plan approved by the feds.

SNC was supposed to purchase the trains and operate it at a profit.

The federal component was the hard capital (tail track and station at Pearson). They even gave Pearson $20M a long time ago when T1 was built toward this effort. No main-line changes were expected at all.

Hmm.. I suppose it's possible the pearson branch track may only have been in the $75M range when initially announced; equal to the amount put into Georgetown.

 

[M II A II R II K]

People may avoid taking the UPX because it's overpriced but I'm sure transit geeks will ride it at least once.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

$2 is to be a fee in lieu of parking paid to the Greater Toronto Airport Authority.

Does that mean soon the GTAA will impose a $2 fee on taxis and limos?

Does that mean soon after that, the GTAA will also impose a $2 fee on cars that drop off or pickup people at the airport?

Does that mean if you're picking a person from a flight, and that person is taking extra time getting through customs, and because of the NO PARKING, you have to circle the roadway until that person gets through, you will be charged $2 for each loop of the roadway?

Does that mean $2 will have to collected from each passenger using public transit to get to or from the airport?

What if you walk or bike to or from the airport? Will $2 also be collected, since you are not parking?

You realize that there is a cell phone parking lot available off site right? I now work near the airport and it amazes me at the number of ignorant people who park along the side of hwy 409 waiting for their pick up to call and say "i'm here' when they could simply go park at the cell phone lot. I mean what's wrong with your pick up passenger waiting a few minutes at the pick up point vs you sitting at the side of a freeway.

Re. the $2 surcharge. I think someone nailed it on the head by saying GTAA imposed this fee because they can. They may very well be charging the airport taxis something similar except the taxi companies are just rolling it into their fare rather than showing it on their billing. Remember only certified GTAA taxis are permitted to pick up at the airport.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

SNC was supposed to purchase the trains and operate it at a profit.

The federal component was the hard capital (tail track and station at Pearson). They even gave Pearson $20M a long time ago when T1 was built toward this effort. No main-line changes were expected at all.

Hmm.. I suppose it's possible the pearson branch track may only have been in the $75M range when initially announced; equal to the amount put into Georgetown.

Thank goodness that never happened - I think we in Ontario have learned quite the hard way the folly of operating any sort of infrastructure privately or for profit. The fares on the UPX will be high enough as is with Metrolinx running it.

People may avoid taking the UPX because it's overpriced but I'm sure transit geeks will ride it at least once.

I get the feeling that there's a certain class of business traveller who will settle into the UPX to avoid sitting in traffic in an airport limo (and for comfort's sake too - I for one find trains, especially with the luxuries that they've promised for better or for worse on this one, infinitely more comfortable than being stuck in the back of any car).

As for transit geeks, I know I plan to once it opens I'll probably take the 192 Airport Rocket from Kipling to Pearson and then the UPX back to Union, in order to avoid paying the premium fare twice.

 

[rbt]

$2 is to be a fee in lieu of parking paid to the Greater Toronto Airport Authority.

Does that mean soon the GTAA will impose a $2 fee on taxis and limos?

Don't they do this already? Nearly every airport in North America has some fee they charge Taxi's and airport shuttles, often in the $2 to $3 range. Toronto uses fixed fares so they'll be buried in it rather than added on at the end by the driver as a special surcharge.

Pearson financial statements have a lineitem for Ground Transportation revenues but it's mixed with parking.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

As for transit geeks, I know I plan to once it opens I'll probably take the 192 Airport Rocket from Kipling to Pearson and then the UPX back to Union, in order to avoid paying the premium fare twice.

Taking to to Union is probably the better (forward) view anyway. Anyone that's looked southeast from a GO train near Parkdale knows what I'm talking about. That unobstructed view of the downtown core is awesome, it will be a nice welcome to visitors. Hope they don't ruin it with a obscenely tall condo.

 

[nfitz]

Re. the $2 surcharge. I think someone nailed it on the head by saying GTAA imposed this fee because they can.

Bingo. If Metrolinx had done their job, and put the screws to the GTAA, they'd have asked the GTAA to pay $5 per ride to Metrolinx, because GTAA will need to construct less roads and parking.

 

[TOareaFan]

Bingo. If Metrolinx had done their job, and put the screws to the GTAA, they'd have asked the GTAA to pay $5 per ride to Metrolinx, because GTAA will need to construct less roads and parking.

Sure....but I don't think there is ever a day when the GTAA does not have spare parking spots and the roads in the airport are already built......roads to airports, outside of the airport grounds, are not the responsibility of GTAA (or any other airport body)

 

[nfitz]

Sure....but I don't think there is ever a day when the GTAA does not have spare parking spots and the roads in the airport are already built

And yet until recently, GTAA had all the special discounts for the off-site parking (near Viscount station) because of all the empty spots!

......roads to airports, outside of the airport grounds, are not the responsibility of GTAA (or any other airport body)

Your wrong here. GTAA owns the 409, west of 427. They are responsible for it, and all the ramps from Airport Road, etc.