[TOareaFan]

Norway has a per capita GDP twice that of Canada ($100k vs 52k), and Oslo is one of the most expensive cities on earth, so using Oslo is indeed as inappropriate as London and Tokyo.
Cities like Rome, Madrid and Chicago are more comparable.

As to the rail link from O'Hara been different service, true, but is Toronto even providing a similar service charging $5? I would happily pay $5 to have one subway ride directly to Yonge/Queen, even for 25 minutes more (in which case hardly anyone would be angry about UPe since most won't be using that).

Compare to Montreal, really? A city that is at best stagnant for decades with crumbling infrastructure just to feel good?

That's right, I forgot, you have never made negative comparisons between Toronto and Montreal when it suited you....my bad!

 

[ksun]

UPE is one of the very few traditional heavy rail airport links in North America.

Chicago gets a subway line, New York gets the AirTrain to nowhere, a bunch of smaller cities get an LRT line... I can't think of many heavy rail connections to the airport.

In Europe, they're priced accordingly. Paris is currently building a comparable link to CDG in order to acommodate tourists and business travellers who don't want to ride the RER B through Paris' ghettos (banlieus). London has the Gatwick and Heathrow Express (worth every pence of that high cost)...

both Rome and Istanbul have direct connections too, and both at reasonable price.
Shanghai (subway, maglev), Tokyo (express rail) and Seoul (express rail) too.

 

[ksun]

That's right, I forgot, you have never made negative comparisons between Toronto and Montreal when it suited you....my bad!

no, I love Montreal. A lot.
But to use Montreal's infrastructure to show Toronto is "not that bad" is kind of sad. And apparently for some reason you were not interested in mentioning Vancouver.

 

[TOareaFan]

no, I love Montreal. A lot.
But to use Montreal's infrastructure to show Toronto is "not that bad" is kind of sad. And apparently for some reason you were not interested in mentioning Vancouver.

If you are going to put quotes around it try and make sure it is actually something someone said. I said that in all the press about how expensive this rail link might be there seems to be a bias to the unfavourable comparisons....and that no one is showing where we might be better....I used Montreal's 747 service as an example because a) it is very comparable to the TTC's rocket express service and b) one that I use and am very familiar with.

I am still trying to figure out why national GDP per capita figures have anything to do with comparing cities' transit infrastructure and pricing....feel free to help.

 

[ksun]

I am still trying to figure out why national GDP per capita figures have anything to do with comparing cities' transit infrastructure and pricing....feel free to help.

Because Oslo is one of the most expensive cities in the world - and therefore not comparable to Toronto (not in the top 20) in this context (pricing of airport trains).

Most expensive cities 1) London 2) Oslo 3) Geneva 4) Zurich 5) NYC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property...-in-the-world-2014-in-pics.html?frame=2783436

 

[TOareaFan]

Because Oslo is one of the most expensive cities in the world - and therefore not comparable to Toronto (not in the top 20) in this context (pricing of airport trains).

Most expensive cities 1) London 2) Oslo 3) Geneva 4) Zurich 5) NYC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property...-in-the-world-2014-in-pics.html?frame=2783436

Ah the dangers of using indices.....so nothing in Toronto can cost more than it costs in London because the Telegraph says so? I will point that out to the guy who will soon be selling me my post work pint of beer.

 

[salsa]

Norway has a per capita GDP twice that of Canada ($100k vs 52k), and Oslo is one of the most expensive cities on earth, so using Oslo is indeed as inappropriate as London and Tokyo.

Appropriate or not, Toronto will likely be paying similar fares to those cities.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you are going to put quotes around it try and make sure it is actually something someone said. I said that in all the press about how expensive this rail link might be there seems to be a bias to the unfavourable comparisons....and that no one is showing where we might be better....I used Montreal's 747 service as an example because a) it is very comparable to the TTC's rocket express service and b) one that I use and am very familiar with.

I am still trying to figure out why national GDP per capita figures have anything to do with comparing cities' transit infrastructure and pricing....feel free to help.

Why are you defending metrolinx on this? You can't even admit this was a bad media run, regardless of who said what?

 

[TOareaFan]

Why are you defending metrolinx on this? You can't even admit this was a bad media run, regardless of who said what?

I am not defending ML and I have pointed out bad media/pr (specifically around the GTAA surcharge) check back.

I just find it incredulous:

a) how much outrage seems to be getting whipped up over numbers ($20-$30) that ML have never put out there (so it is hard to criticize them on "bad media" when it is not something they have ever said to the media).
b) how quickly people take that imaginary range and assume it is gonna be at the high end of the range
c) how far people will go/stretch to try and justify a much lower figure than the imaginary range without any context around the type of service.

 

[PL1]

Fast forward to December, 2014 when Metrolinx reveals UPX fares. I predict one of 2 things:

1. Fares set at $28 one way (i.e. high end of the rumoured fares; they will probably also have return, multiple use, etc). People shake their fists at how Metrolinx never listened to them. Pearson workers continue to ride the Airport Rocket from Kipling (or bus from Lawrence W).

or 2. Fares set at $22 one way (i.e. low end of rumoured fares). People high-five each other and congratulate each other over how their pressure lead to Metrolinx lowering the fares. Pearson workers continue to ride the Airport Rocket from Kipling (or bus from Lawrence W).

As others have pointed out, Metrolinx has never said what they plan on charging. It'll probably be as much as they can to encourage strong but not standing-room use. We shall see. All we're doing until we know is almost pointless arguing.

 

[TOareaFan]

Fast forward to December, 2014 when Metrolinx reveals UPX fares. I predict one of 2 things:

1. Fares set at $28 one way (i.e. high end of the rumoured fares; they will probably also have return, multiple use, etc). People shake their fists at how Metrolinx never listened to them. Pearson workers continue to ride the Airport Rocket from Kipling (or bus from Lawrence W).

or 2. Fares set at $22 one way (i.e. low end of rumoured fares). People high-five each other and congratulate each other over how their pressure lead to Metrolinx lowering the fares. Pearson workers continue to ride the Airport Rocket from Kipling (or bus from Lawrence W).

As others have pointed out, Metrolinx has never said what they plan on charging. It'll probably be as much as they can to encourage strong but not standing-room use. We shall see. All we're doing until we know is almost pointless arguing.

If they ever get to that point they are in trouble........they will not be taking seat reservations....you will be able to buy a ticket in advance but not for a seat....they are fully expecting people to be able to print their ticket in the office (or put it on their phone) walk down to Union and get on a train....if they get to the point they are turning people away, the model has failed.

 

[salsa]

As others have pointed out, Metrolinx has never said what they plan on charging. It'll probably be as much as they can to encourage strong but not standing-room use. We shall see. All we're doing until we know is almost pointless arguing.

Metrolinx's priority is full cost recovery, not ridership. Fares will be priced accordingly.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I am not defending ML and I have pointed out bad media/pr (specifically around the GTAA surcharge) check back.

I just find it incredulous:

a) how much outrage seems to be getting whipped up over numbers ($20-$30) that ML have never put out there (so it is hard to criticize them on "bad media" when it is not something they have ever said to the media).
b) how quickly people take that imaginary range and assume it is gonna be at the high end of the range
c) how far people will go/stretch to try and justify a much lower figure than the imaginary range without any context around the type of service.

That's fair, but imo this is due to lack of clarity on their. Parts. They have said nothing, but people are looking at old documents on their website and that botched interview about this "not being public transit" has mislead people

Fast forward to December, 2014 when Metrolinx reveals UPX fares. I predict one of 2 things:

1. Fares set at $28 one way (i.e. high end of the rumoured fares; they will probably also have return, multiple use, etc). People shake their fists at how Metrolinx never listened to them. Pearson workers continue to ride the Airport Rocket from Kipling (or bus from Lawrence W).

or 2. Fares set at $22 one way (i.e. low end of rumoured fares). People high-five each other and congratulate each other over how their pressure lead to Metrolinx lowering the fares. Pearson workers continue to ride the Airport Rocket from Kipling (or bus from Lawrence W).

As others have pointed out, Metrolinx has never said what they plan on charging. It'll probably be as much as they can to encourage strong but not standing-room use. We shall see. All we're doing until we know is almost pointless arguing.

Metrolinx's priority is full cost recovery, not ridership. Fares will be priced accordingly.

This is the problem with this being under 20 dollars, or under 25 to be honest. They need to make the money back from this.

 

[nfitz]

Appropriate or not, Toronto will likely be paying similar fares to those cities.

Good. The equivalent airport train in London only costs $18 ... which seems fair.

 

[salsa]

Good. The equivalent airport train in London only costs $18 ... which seems fair.

This is what I found. It's about $28.

https://www.heathrowexpress.com/tickets-deals/prices-fares