[sixrings]

I don't think anyone who suggesting this become a drl west is advocating for a three car set up. I understand that the platforms were designed to accommodate that but why could the platforms not be extended, add some extra stops (mount dennis for instance, Kipling, St Claire, Liberty Village) , and then operate a more subway like vehicle without luxury seating at 5 minute frequencies.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think anyone who suggesting this become a drl west is advocating for a three car set up. I understand that the platforms were designed to accommodate that but why could the platforms not be extended, add some extra stops (mount dennis for instance, Kipling, St Claire, Liberty Village) , and then operate a more subway like vehicle without luxury seating at 5 minute frequencies.

The biggest reason is money. That would have cost a lot more than was spent. And isn't that what the RER project and DumbTrack are looking at? Different project.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

TTCriders is a joke; a group of social justice warriors masquerading as transit advocates.

People are too quick to condemn UPX as a failure, and overestimate the awareness level of the general population. It takes time for new travel options to percolate through organizations and social networks, and people tend to be slow to change travel habits to incorporate new options like UPX. In my office most people have heard there's a train to the airport now but don't really know the details. Many people who live in Toronto proper don't even really know what Presto is, never mind the discount for UPX (thanks to the media for hyping the $27.50 fare). We have a lot of US-based visitors who say they will take the train now that they know it exists. Everything just takes time...

 

[sixrings]

The biggest reason is money. That would have cost a lot more than was spent. And isn't that what the RER project and DumbTrack are looking at? Different project.

seems like a much better way to spend money than Eglinton West Smarttrack... Convert UPX and extend the Eglinton LRT to the airport seems fairly obvious.

 

[Palma]

The people at TTC riders are such fools. How is it possible to even turn the UP Express into the DRL West? And since the most important part of the DRL is in the east, what goal would turning the UP Express into the DRL West even accomplish right now? Seems its not just the politicians who come up with stupid ideas.

Well all maps that I ever saw, showed DRL running from the east at Danforth and Pape down to union and back up west, hitting Dundas St west. So how is the suggestion that the UPX bec0me the DRL western portion not make sense? It makes sense to me. At this point it can even hit the LRT at Eglinton and Weston Road. And just because the "most important part of the DRL is in the east" (except to those who live in the west), the fact is the western portion aka the UPX has been built and should be the part of the DRL

 

[Palma]

TTCriders is a joke; a group of social justice warriors masquerading as transit advocates.

People are too quick to condemn UPX as a failure, and overestimate the awareness level of the general population. It takes time for new travel options to percolate through organizations and social networks, and people tend to be slow to change travel habits to incorporate new options like UPX. In my office most people have heard there's a train to the airport now but don't really know the details. Many people who live in Toronto proper don't even really know what Presto is, never mind the discount for UPX (thanks to the media for hyping the $27.50 fare). We have a lot of US-based visitors who say they will take the train now that they know it exists. Everything just takes time...

The fact is even if people now know of the UPX, it's still expensive and makes more sense to have TTC fares from Union Station to the next couple of stops and then express service to the airport since it makes no additional stops

 

[Palma]

I don't think anyone who suggesting this become a drl west is advocating for a three car set up. I understand that the platforms were designed to accommodate that but why could the platforms not be extended, add some extra stops (mount dennis for instance, Kipling, St Claire, Liberty Village) , and then operate a more subway like vehicle without luxury seating at 5 minute frequencies.

You said it better than I did

 

[TOareaFan]

seems like a much better way to spend money than Eglinton West Smarttrack... Convert UPX and extend the Eglinton LRT to the airport seems fairly obvious.

where at the airport would you fit these much bigger trains and, how much more money would you spend turning the UP into something that it is not (and was never intended to be)?

 

[sixrings]

I think the real problem is that the city doesn't have enough infrastructure for its own people and it is going out of the way to convenience the business traveller. The way I see it once we add TOLL lanes to the 427 and Gardner there is no reason a TAXi to ever take too long a ride to the airport. Which means that the business traveller will be accommodated. However the citizens will still be stuck in gridlock. The more people on transit the more cars off the roads. We should be using every opportunity to encourage people to take transit, instead we are running near empty trains.

 

[sixrings]

where at the airport would you fit these much bigger trains and, how much more money would you spend turning the UP into something that it is not (and was never intended to be)?

perhaps it was a bad idea to begin with. Putting HOV lanes on the highways do the same thing while freeing up the rails for actual transit users.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't think anyone who suggesting this become a drl west is advocating for a three car set up. I understand that the platforms were designed to accommodate that but why could the platforms not be extended, add some extra stops (mount dennis for instance, Kipling, St Claire, Liberty Village) , and then operate a more subway like vehicle without luxury seating at 5 minute frequencies.

Mount Dennis is already planned as a GO/UP/Crosstown stop...so nothing to criticize there .....Liberty Village is on the list of 50 potential new stations for GO (although not discussed in the context of UP).....but even the existing stations where they built for 3 car length UP stations it is hard to picture them fitting much more in....and since the end station (the P part of UP) had a size constraint of 3 there was no need to bother.

 

[dowlingm]

I don't think anyone who suggesting this become a drl west is advocating for a three car set up. I understand that the platforms were designed to accommodate that but why could the platforms not be extended

They were designed to 3 car length because there is no room at Pearson. The track fits within the envelope of the inter-terminal rollercoaster. The only way around that is to convert the airport spur to a shuttle.

As for the 3-car trainsets, there are no double deck high floor FRA compliant 25kV AC 60Hz EMUs on the market at present. They could get something from Europe but only after regulations change (probably after GO rolls out PTC.) Hopefully NJ Transit will buy a design which works here too (but lighter/simpler with no 25Hz power to worry about). If the wire is strung soon, the most likely candidate for a UPX replacement (assuming per drum118 does that the re-powering is abandoned) is something like a Metro North M7 (Bombardier) or M8 (Kawasaki). Unless build quality improves significantly over what appears to have been supplied in Philly I'm really hoping Rotem don't offer a lowest bid Silverliner V.

 

[sixrings]

I am skeptical of the "no room" argument. It seems like almost anything can be done with enough money being thrown at it. Im not supporting wasting money but the unfortunate truth is that the UPX is taking up precious rail space in a city that needs more transit.

 

[TOareaFan]

I am skeptical of the "no room" argument. It seems like almost anything can be done with enough money being thrown at it.

That is perfectly true...and a position that I have heard before.....but the sentence never gets completed with "how much more money would you have spent at the airport and other stations to get to the point where bigger trains would fit".

then, the question becomes.....would anyone have approved, funded, built that line at the time people were willing to approve, fund, build the +/- $500million line that had size limitations?

Taking parts of something out of context it is easy to shoot it down....but it never tells the entire story.

 

[TOareaFan]

perhaps it was a bad idea to begin with. Putting HOV lanes on the highways do the same thing while freeing up the rails for actual transit users.

but there are rails available for transit users....don't mix up their unwillingness to significantly increase service on KW line with any lack of ability to do it.