[TOareaFan]

^we are also influenced/skewed by experiences....I have only used the 192 twice....and have yet to experience a 19 minute ride.......more like 25 both times...so when I factor in comfort/predictability/speed I would opt for UP from Dundas West.....your point about the walk outside is very good....but that is an issue that has been on the table for a very long time.

 

[LNahid2000]

^we are also influenced/skewed by experiences....I have only used the 192 twice....and have yet to experience a 19 minute ride.......more like 25 both times...so when I factor in comfort/predictability/speed I would opt for UP from Dundas West.....your point about the walk outside is very good....but that is an issue that has been on the table for a very long time.

I've used it many times, and found that it can take as little as 15 minutes to Terminal 1. Therefore, my calculations only gave the UPE a 5 minute advantage.

 

[nfitz]

If you are already on the Bloor line, I can't see that the UPX adds much, given it's relative infrequency, and the long walk from Dundas West to Bloor station (as opposed to simply going up an elevator with luggage).

The the last time I boarded my train to Kipling, there was an announcement that all trains were turning back at Jane because of a problem. Knowing that I could get off at Dundas West and easily get to the airport saved me some worry (though by the time we got closer, they'd announced the problem had cleared).

 

[TOareaFan]

I've used it many times, and found that it can take as little as 15 minutes to Terminal 1. Therefore, my calculations only gave the UPE a 5 minute advantage.

That's excaclty what I meant by "influenced/skewed by experiences"...I doubt I would ever use it again now that UP exists and your good experiences make you pretty sure you would never switch to UP.....good to have choices!

 

[Napoleon]

The the last time I boarded my train to Kipling, there was an announcement that all trains were turning back at Jane because of a problem. Knowing that I could get off at Dundas West and easily get to the airport saved me some worry (though by the time we got closer, they'd announced the problem had cleared).

Absolutely it's great to have a back-up plan.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The circular argument on price is kind of amazing, but just to keep it going...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...rt_express_bus_to_stop_service_this_fall.html

When I was travelling to the airport from downtown during my pre-affording-a-taxi days, I used to take the Airport Express, usually from the Royal York. Definitely not a fast ride as they'd stop at least at Harbour Castle for more passengers but it was the budget travel from downtown. I remember the price as $15 way back in the day -- apparently it had risen to... yup.. $27 when shut down in 2014. But because it was $27 by bus probably made it 'feel' more budgety than $19 by comfortable train with Balzac's coffee. Or something.

Seriously, though, as an out-of-town (albeit well versed in Toronto, natch) visitor, by far the best thing about the UP experience was how easy it was at Pearson. As easy as grabbing a taxi, pre-paid, fast, didn't have to go outside in November. Anyone staying at Le Germain, Delta, Royal York, One King, etc., etc. doesn't have to go outside -- even the Hilton or Sheration or Marriott Eaton Centre, although all those are a bit of a hike. Even the King Eddy is a short block from King station.

Try it -- you'll like it.

 

[44 North]

The circular argument on price is kind of amazing, but just to keep it going...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...rt_express_bus_to_stop_service_this_fall.html

When I was travelling to the airport from downtown during my pre-affording-a-taxi days, I used to take the Airport Express, usually from the Royal York. Definitely not a fast ride as they'd stop at least at Harbour Castle for more passengers but it was the budget travel from downtown. I remember the price as $15 way back in the day -- apparently it had risen to... yup.. $27 when shut down in 2014. But because it was $27 by bus probably made it 'feel' more budgety than $19 by comfortable train with Balzac's coffee. Or something.

Seriously, though, as an out-of-town (albeit well versed in Toronto, natch) visitor, by far the best thing about the UP experience was how easy it was at Pearson. As easy as grabbing a taxi, pre-paid, fast, didn't have to go outside in November. Anyone staying at Le Germain, Delta, Royal York, One King, etc., etc. doesn't have to go outside -- even the Hilton or Sheration or Marriott Eaton Centre, although all those are a bit of a hike. Even the King Eddy is a short block from King station.

Try it -- you'll like it.

Ya ya, we get it. Even though UPX carries but a mere pittance of the potential demand along the corridor, will be subsidized in perpetuity, had little input from the city it runs through, has fares way out of line with other rail links on the continent, cannot be modified/upgraded in an RT service, rode roughshod over decades-old plans to use the corridor for RT, and had Ontarians pony up significant scarce capital (that could've otherwise gone to projects with arguably greater priority, and which ironically could've involved the very same corridor) - UPX is the best thing ever. And anyone who says otherwise or puts in their $0.02 has no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Ya ya, we get it. Even though UPX carries but a mere pittance of the potential demand along the corridor, will be subsidized in perpetuity, had little input from the city it runs through, has fares way out of line with other rail links on the continent, cannot be modified/upgraded in an RT service, rode roughshod over decades-old plans to use the corridor for RT, and had Ontarians pony up significant scarce capital (that could've otherwise gone to projects with arguably greater priority, and which ironically could've involved the very same corridor) - UPX is the best thing ever. And anyone who says otherwise or puts in their $0.02 has no idea what they're talking about.

Hahaha... feel better? That was a quality rant!

Hey, I was against the whole Pan Am games, much less this piece of that puzzle. But, just like West Don Lands is now built, so is UPX. It's a sunk cost. The question, now, is how to maximize revenue, and most (or all) of the folks here are arguing that the way to do that is lower the price. And, as I've obviously said too often for your liking, the price is very reasonable for the service you get. Most people who don't like the price aren't the target market for the service -- they live too far away from Union, mostly -- but they want to lower the price anyway so that, if they ever want to go to the airport, they'll make the effort to come to Union in order to get to say they paid the lowest CBD to Airport fare in the world!

Given that it's been in service for less than six months, the advertising/marketing/customer service/signage had fairly major teething problems, and we haven't had a full weather cycle (or even a bad winter storm) to show off UPX' advantages, my point -- at this point -- is give it time and a marketing push. But, whatever, be angry about the rapid transit corridor loss. It won't bring the corridor back.

And, in the meantime... take the UPX to the airport! You'll love it! Wheeeee...

 

[picard102]

The question, now, is how to maximize revenue,

The question is how do we maximize it's use, relative to it's imposition on the transit landscape, and make it something useful to more than just a few people who live near Union.
Throwing up your arms and saying the costs are sunk, now lets wait for anyone to give a rats ass about this train, is squandering those sunk costs.

 

[Napoleon]

\ they'll make the effort to come to Union in order to get to say they paid the lowest CBD to Airport fare in the world!

Ummm......

I just had a great trip on BART from SFO->Downtown for less than half of that fare.

 

[Megaton327]

Ummm......

I just had a great trip on BART from SFO->Downtown for less than half of that fare.

That chart is utterly absurd and irrelevant to anything, ever, based in reality. Right off the bat, the YTZ pedestrian tunnel is NOT an "airport-city link", the tunnel plus either the porter shuttle, 509, or a taxi is an airport-city link. Even if you go with the shuttle it remains $0, but there is no "time" axis on this chart, which is ridiculous--most passengers care about how much time a trip takes.

By the logic of this chart, I can walk from YYZ to downtown, and save $19 dollars, making it tied for the best airport-city link in North America--according to Google Maps, a 22.5km,/4h36m walk, through some very questionable neighbourhoods I might add.

How about a chart that shows the prices and time taken for various options? Or, if you're just showing price, exclusively show prices of dedicated express airport-city rail links that take under half an hour.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Ummm......

I just had a great trip on BART from SFO->Downtown for less than half of that fare.

Nice graphic, but you read poorly. I'm not saying it IS a low fare, I'm saying people want to LOWER it to a low fare.

Also -- so, Toronto has the lowest, median, and highest fare on that chart! How cool is that -- only rivaled by Boston, as New York seems to only have high fares and Baltimore doesn't seem to be able to attract the luxury customer.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Ummm......

Something to note: pretty sure that graph was generated when the Canadian dollar was higher. Many of those US costs will be higher now, but UPX will likely still be at the top.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The question is how do we maximize it's use, relative to it's imposition on the transit landscape, and make it something useful to more than just a few people who live near Union. Throwing up your arms and saying the costs are sunk, now lets wait for anyone to give a rats ass about this train, is squandering those sunk costs.

Well, that's your question. Mine is, how do we maximize its revenue?

 

[44 North]

dunno where that chart came from, but there was a second one floating around the net at the time. Might be more useful to some, since this only shows direct rail links.