The Liberty Village plan is from the recent station designs. I can't remember where I read the one for Bloor, and it's possible I'm mixing it up with Bloor-Lansdowne, but whether Bloor is bypassed by express trains or not, either way it'll have trains stopping there which won't stop at Liberty Village.
 
The Liberty Village plan is from the recent station designs. I can't remember where I read the one for Bloor, and it's possible I'm mixing it up with Bloor-Lansdowne, but whether Bloor is bypassed by express trains or not, either way it'll have trains stopping there which won't stop at Liberty Village.

The "base" GO/RER trains will stop everywhere. So there have to be two tracks prioritised for this. The Liberty plan suggests the outside tracks will be used. There is no interlocking between Bloor and Liberty where trains could cross over.

The challenge is how to feed trains in and out of the Pearson spur without crossing them over across the path of through trains. The more use that is made of the southmost tracks by UPE, the fewer crossover moves there will be, and the fewest number of conflicts. However, so long as the UPE terminal at Union is on the very north side, UPE would have to cross over at Bathurst. At least there is a flyover at Bathurst.

Platform arrangement and track priority and interlocking design all have to align.

- Paul
 
The Liberty Village plan is from the recent station designs. I can't remember where I read the one for Bloor, and it's possible I'm mixing it up with Bloor-Lansdowne, but whether Bloor is bypassed by express trains or not, either way it'll have trains stopping there which won't stop at Liberty Village.
I think the confusion might be that projections were for the present GO DD services to K/W, when they're running all day, and RER is instituted, will run express from Bramalea (or wherever RER terminate) to Union, much like the late afternoon service to Mt Pleasant does now.

The reason this will be possible is due to RER being the 'local' service, and due to the characteristics of the RER vehicles, they will accelerate and decelerate much faster than the heavy DDs and locos, and so headway is much easier to maintain. The overall performance of sharing four tracks or more (with UPX) will benefit, if not be dependent on that.
 
My understanding is you'll have:
  1. Electrified RER trains stopping at Union, Liberty, Bloor, St Clair, Mt Dennis, Weston, Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea on 15 minute headways (and likely interlined with Stouffville)
  2. Electrified UPX trains stopping at Union, Bloor, Mt Dennis, Weston, and Pearson on 15 minute headways
  3. Diesel trains running express from Union to Bramalea (maybe stopping at Bloor?), then continuing on to unspecified points (likely Kitchener or Mount Pleasant) running on varying headways
  4. One day, potentially, HSR running from Union to Kitchener express through the Weston corridor
  5. The occasional VIA train
Certainly not impossible, but that's an interesting needle to thread with four tracks, particularly if GO doesn't control the line beyond Bramalea, and particularly at peak when GO is promising 15 minute headways on all three of UPX, electrified RER, and diesel to Mount Pleasant.

Of course, this plan could change completely by this afternoon. You never know with Metrolinx.
 
The Weston trench/tunnel can already accommodate the 4th track so no changes as far as I know are required.

I was actually talking about the pedestrian tunnels at Weston Go itself. I know the corridor was built up for 4 tracks (up to the 401 tunnel) already. I was referring to the possibility of a new platform being built at Weston Go to the east of the new track 1. (Conveniently positioned to berth a Sprinter-type rail service from Bolton and points beyond. Hmmm...)
 
My understanding is you'll have:
  1. Electrified RER trains stopping at Union, Liberty, Bloor, St Clair, Mt Dennis, Weston, Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea on 15 minute headways (and likely interlined with Stouffville)
  2. Electrified UPX trains stopping at Union, Bloor, Mt Dennis, Weston, and Pearson on 15 minute headways
So, essentially, 7.5 minute frequencies from Weston to Union.
Diesel trains running express from Union to Bramalea (maybe stopping at Bloor?), then continuing on to unspecified points (likely Kitchener or Mount Pleasant) running on varying headways

If the corridor remains in the same alignment as now, I think there will be a lot of pressure to have those trains also stop at Weston (so that people travelling from the west headed to Pearson have a faster/cheaper trip to airport) and Mt. Dennis (why spend billions building the crosstown and then have a major train service not inter-connect with it).

One day, potentially, HSR running from Union to Kitchener express through the Weston corridor

And since that line is to have a Pearson stop....it sorta suggests the corridor will not retain the current alignment (unless, of course, by "Pearson" they really mean "Malton/International Centre")

Certainly not impossible, but that's an interesting needle to thread with four tracks, particularly if GO doesn't control the line beyond Bramalea, and particularly at peak when GO is promising 15 minute headways on all three of UPX, electrified RER, and diesel to Mount Pleasant.

The part from (just east of) Bramalea to Georgetown is going to be challenge from a control point of view....but even bigger will be how to expand the corridor thru downtown Brampton from 2 to 3 (or 4) tracks.

Of course, this plan could change completely by this afternoon. You never know with Metrolinx.

Really depends which politicians they are allowing to write their "evidence based" policies this week.
 
My understanding is you'll have:
  1. Electrified RER trains stopping at Union, Liberty, Bloor, St Clair, Mt Dennis, Weston, Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea on 15 minute headways (and likely interlined with Stouffville)
  2. Electrified UPX trains stopping at Union, Bloor, Mt Dennis, Weston, and Pearson on 15 minute headways
  3. Diesel trains running express from Union to Bramalea (maybe stopping at Bloor?), then continuing on to unspecified points (likely Kitchener or Mount Pleasant) running on varying headways
  4. One day, potentially, HSR running from Union to Kitchener express through the Weston corridor
  5. The occasional VIA train
Certainly not impossible, but that's an interesting needle to thread with four tracks, particularly if GO doesn't control the line beyond Bramalea, and particularly at peak when GO is promising 15 minute headways on all three of UPX, electrified RER, and diesel to Mount Pleasant.

Of course, this plan could change completely by this afternoon. You never know with Metrolinx.

That's why there are discussions for the freight bypass between Bramalea and Milton. You never know in terms of the priorities or direction from the Minister/government. And, with the June election approaching, it will be interesting to see what new direction, if any, the government gives Metrolinx.
 
That's why there are discussions for the freight bypass between Bramalea and Milton. You never know in terms of the priorities or direction from the Minister/government. And, with the June election approaching, it will be interesting to see what new direction, if any, the government gives Metrolinx.
I am well aware of the bypass "discussions".....but even without freight(since it was left off the list above I think the assumption was the bypass was built).......that list of services through DT Brampton will need more than 2 tracks....3 might do it (just from reading what people with better knowledge than me post here) but will still be hard to build.....4 will be very very very difficult to achieve (if it is even possible).
 
My understanding is you'll have:
  1. Electrified RER trains stopping at Union, Liberty, Bloor, St Clair, Mt Dennis, Weston, Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea on 15 minute headways (and likely interlined with Stouffville)
  2. Electrified UPX trains stopping at Union, Bloor, Mt Dennis, Weston, and Pearson on 15 minute headways
  3. Diesel trains running express from Union to Bramalea (maybe stopping at Bloor?), then continuing on to unspecified points (likely Kitchener or Mount Pleasant) running on varying headways
  4. One day, potentially, HSR running from Union to Kitchener express through the Weston corridor
  5. The occasional VIA train
Certainly not impossible, but that's an interesting needle to thread with four tracks, particularly if GO doesn't control the line beyond Bramalea, and particularly at peak when GO is promising 15 minute headways on all three of UPX, electrified RER, and diesel to Mount Pleasant.

Of course, this plan could change completely by this afternoon. You never know with Metrolinx.

PTC can't come soon enough
 
It’s doable. I saw a convo somewhere here that ML/Go need the freight bypass and at least a third track through downtown Brampton. If they build all of that and get the proper signalling and controls i.e. 3 minute headways, should be good even at that volume of service.
 
PTC has no bearing on how many trains you can put on a set of tracks.

Exactly right, although I hope PTC is installed (for safety rather than capacity reasons).

A four-track route can easily handle both stopping and express service of very high frequency, with or without PTC, except....if one of the services branches mid route. The issue is, if trains switch tracks, they cross the paths of other trains. Run a Pearson-bound UPE train on the northmost track, and it will have to cross three other tracks when it reaches the Pearson Spur.

There is a minimum time that the train's route has to be lined in advance of its arrival. During that time, while the crossover movement is routed, none of the other affected tracks can be used for through movement. And there is a minimum stopping distance for these other trains. With the new signalling on that line, trains get their first restrictive indication several blocks away from the "home" signal where the crossovers are located. That restrictive signal buffer forces trains to slow down, PTC or no PTC. Any train needing to crossover may take several minutes' capacity out of every track it crosses.

Ever since UPE was promised for the Pan Am Games, its needs have taken priority and GO has been an afterthought on that line. RER and HSR spec are after-the-fact bolt-ons. The RER and HSR service specs are still so loose that it's impossible to say exactly how it should work. No wonder that the design may not be optimal, even after all the money spent on GTS.

Even with four tracks, UPE sucks up more than its share of capacity because crossovers are inevitable. There has been talk of building a flyover at Wice, although I have never seen this mentioned in any public document.

Same thing will arise at Scarboro Jct, by the way, when RER/ST is cranked up on the Unionville line. VIA, and through GO trains to Oshawa and Bowmanville, will have the same constraints.

- Paul
 
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So, essentially, 7.5 minute frequencies from Weston to Union.

An average of 7.5 minutes for Weston, Mt Dennis, and Bloor (but not St Clair or Liberty Village). But because of the different stopping patterns and route lengths, spacing them actually 7.5 minutes apart won't be possible. Saying an average of 7.5 minutes is all well and good, but you could still easily get to a station and have to wait 12 minutes for a train, by design.

If the corridor remains in the same alignment as now, I think there will be a lot of pressure to have those trains also stop at Weston (so that people travelling from the west headed to Pearson have a faster/cheaper trip to airport) and Mt. Dennis (why spend billions building the crosstown and then have a major train service not inter-connect with it).

They'll do their modelling and likely decide that way, but I'd be shocked if the models show that stopping the diesels at Mt Dennis is a net positive. The number of people who are looking to travel between Brampton or Kitchener and Eglinton West and who are also unwilling to transfer one more time at Bramalea is unlikely to outweigh the number of people who will be put off the extra time allocated to stopping a diesel at an extra station. The only way I see it making sense is if you have to pad the schedule to work around RER and UPX trains. Bloor might make sense because of the density and employment along Line 2, and Weston might make sense for a connection to the UPX (though I'm skeptical about both) but I really don't see it for Mt Dennis.
 
PTC has no bearing on how many trains you can put on a set of tracks.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Actually it does, and substantially, depending on how the particular form of PTC is manifest.

Lots of papers on-line, AAR hosts a number, but this one puts the use of PTC in a larger context, and this is how many advanced nations are now using it:
Positive Train Control With Dynamic Headway Based on an Active Communication System
Abstract:
Safety, capacity, and timely schedules are some of the most crucial objectives in railway operations. Positive train control (PTC) is a concept whose goal is to improve the safety and efficiency of railway operations by using advanced information technologies. Information technologies such as active communications enable the use of a dynamic headway policy, which can increase the track capacity and improve dispatching efficiency in addition to improving safety. In this paper, we propose a dynamic headway system for PTC based on active communications, which we integrate with a dynamic dispatching model in order to improve track capacity and safety in railway operations. We use a simulation model of a rail network in southern California to demonstrate the effectiveness of our proposed approach. The simulation results of different scenarios show reductions in train delays of at least 55% and reductions in travel time of at least 35% when using the dynamic headway versus using a fixed headway. [...]
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7120971/?reload=true

Here's two more of the many online:
Rockwell Collins launches Positive Train Control shared network ...
https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Data/News/2016.../FY16IMSNR25-RailwayNet.aspx
Jun 2, 2016 - ARINC RailwayNet℠ network and messaging service aims to increase railroad safety,efficiency. Leverages Rockwell Collins' existing aviation network to support Positive Train Control(PTC) next-generation technology for the rail industry. Company receives $4.9 million grant from Federal Railroad ...

[PDF]Intelligent Transportation System/Positive Train Control at Highway ...
https://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Document/2095
DOT Research and Innovative Technology Administration (RITA), aimed at integrating Positive Train Control. (PTC) and Intelligent Transportation System (ITS) technologies. The objective of this research is to improve safety and efficiency at highway-rail intersections (HRIs) by finding affordable, standardized systems that ...

Here's the set-up for the argument for Canada to look past the unacceptable status quo: (even the US is ahead of us on this)

[...]
Here’s what the US can learn from Europe’s extensive train network:

1. Automatic Train Protection is not expendable
A crash like the one in Philadelphia would have been virtually inconceivable in the EU, where most trains have Automatic Train Protection (known as Positive Train Control in the US) installed. This system restricts a train’s speed, or automatically applies emergency brakes, if the stipulated line speed is exceeded. The locomotive involved in the Philadelphia crash had the necessary protection system installed, but the track section did not, despite a 2008 Congressional decision to mandate its installation.
[...]
https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-trains-amtrak-safer-railways/

And here's what just one European (now world-wide, with a large share of the US market too) is part of:
European Train Control System (ETCS)
With its decision to opt for a standard train protection and control system, Europe has paved the way towards future-orientated, interoperable rail transportation. Promoted by politicians and pushed ahead by railway authorities and leading suppliers such as Siemens, a network of ETCS-equipped lines is evolving in Europe. Europe is thus growing together and the world is opening up; in the meantime, ETCS has developed into a global standard. Siemens offers its customers optimized ETCS solutions from a single source.
[...]
https://www.mobility.siemens.com/mo...stem/pages/european-train-control-system.aspx

Cdn rail: Yesterday's solutions for tomorrow. And Metrolinx, as much as they have a CEO who knows better, is stuck in the same time warp.

Here's from almost a decade ago in the US: (Siemens now have versions of advanced PTC specifically for North Am)

U.S. Positive Train Control (PTC) System Application to International Heavy Haul Railways for Safety and Efficiency Improvements

R.C. Kull Wabtec Railway Electronics, Germantown, MD, USA

The U.S. Class 1 railways are implementing PTC on a large scale to meet U.S. government safety requirements by the end of 2015. This will lead to a set of “Interoperable Train Control” (ITC) standards. There are benefits for International heavy haul railways to adopt these standards to support their next generation train control system implementation plans. PTC increases safety, and can also provide the basis for both capacity and efficiency improvements. [...]
http://railknowledgebank.com/Presto...mnt=VHJ1ZQ==&uSesDM=False&rIdx=MzEzOA==&rCFU=

Post Script:
Train Control Working Group Final Report Presented to: The AdvisoryCouncil on Railway Safety September 2016
[...]
upload_2018-3-15_19-0-44.png

https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/railsafety/train-control-working-group-final-report.pdf
 

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If the freight bypass is built, didn't metrolinx hint at electrification continuing to Mt. Pleasant/Georgetown, and if a second track is built between Georgetown and Kitchener and the Guelph corridor issues are resolved, wouldn't the entire corridor be electrified?

Even with partial electrification, say even from Bramalea to Union, wouldn't it still make sense to run dual-mode locomotives on the KW/Brampton trains? I don't think Metrolinx has thought real service patterns through at all.
 

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