Trust me I'd rather see the whole thing electrifed (?) but I'd rather this got started right away. This isn't like Eglinton where starting the LRT would preempt a subway for 50 years.
 
I agree. Let's implement electric in a phased approach, adding overheads when most effective. Perhaps combining this with other track work (double/triple tracking, fly overs/unders, signalling upgrades) on a line by line basis.

We cannot prevent expansion to rail service simply because we want to build electric first.
 
I agree, but I don't see why they need to build it with these nonexistant diesel engines.
They just have to put a 10 year max timeframe on electrification, and then regular Diesel trains definitely won't be getting up to that 400/day within 10 years, so there's really no worry.

The NIMBYs? I won't give them any credit whatsoever. They're being difficult and unrealistic, and there really won't be a huge impact on Diesel vs. Electric for at least 5 years. By then, the line can easily be fully Electrified.
 
why doesn't metrolinx guarantee a time line to implement electric on this corridor for GO trains and blue22? just say that if not electrified in 10 years (for example), blue 22 trains will be able to operate after the deadline or must operate at a severely reduced level.
 
Why should they?

Given that the Nimbys just got a huge concession that eliminates 90% of the emissions from diesel, I'd think the entire debate would be over.

But it's likely not ... which just goes to my point that no matter what concessions will be made, the opposition won't be happy ... providing evidence it's not about transit at all, and simply an objection to being near trains.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
why doesn't metrolinx guarantee a time line to implement electric on this corridor for GO trains and blue22? just say that if not electrified in 10 years (for example), blue 22 trains will be able to operate after the deadline or must operate at a severely reduced level.
Click to expand...

It's in the RTP as a year 15 project.
 
nfitz said:
Why should they?

Given that the Nimbys just got a huge concession that eliminates 90% of the emissions from diesel, I'd think the entire debate would be over.

But it's likely not ... which just goes to my point that no matter what concessions will be made, the opposition won't be happy ... providing evidence it's not about transit at all, and simply an objection to being near trains.
Click to expand...


is this emission technology going to be used for blue 22 trains as well?

there is also the issue of achieving faster speeds with electric, reduced sound levels and cost of diesel fuel. it isn't all about the emissions.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
is this emission technology going to be used for blue 22 trains as well?
Click to expand...
As far as I can see it applies to the airport trains. I very much doubt that such a service will have either blue or 22 in the name.

Prometheus The Supremo said:
there is also the issue of achieving faster speeds with electric, reduced sound levels and cost of diesel fuel. it isn't all about the emissions.
Click to expand...
And there is also the issue of capital exenditures, when to spend it, and what else to spend it on.
 
nfitz said:
And there is also the issue of capital exenditures, when to spend it, and what else to spend it on.
Click to expand...
Not to mention a provincial government that has plunged deep into deficit due to reduced tax revenues. In the real world, immediate electrification at a $1.5B cost would mean $1.5B taken out of other things. Where would we remove it from? Other transit? Schools? Hospitals?
 
DavidH said:
Not to mention a provincial government that has plunged deep into deficit due to reduced tax revenues. In the real world, immediate electrification at a $1.5B cost would mean $1.5B taken out of other things. Where would we remove it from? Other transit? Schools? Hospitals?
Click to expand...

Blasphemy! The pot is unlimited, dontchaknow! They can surely find infinity billion dollars for this and that! :D

Sorry, couldn't resist...
 
RedRocket, doesn't Metrolinx's own Lakeshore study documents claim that the investment in electrification will pay for itself within 10 years of operational savings??
 
And plus what impact will this have on the prospect of extending the DRL up that corridor, especially if there's no room left.
 
Blue 22 is only 30% of the trains, so even if you electrify you'd still have several hundred diesel trains using the corridor (unless you electrify to Milton/Cambridge, Bolton, Barrie, KW, VIA Rail, CP or buy all dual mode trains)
 
waterloowarrior said:
Blue 22 is only 30% of the trains, so even if you electrify you'd still have several hundred diesel trains using the corridor (unless you electrify to Milton/Cambridge, Bolton, Barrie, KW, VIA Rail, CP or buy all dual mode trains)
Click to expand...

I think the reasonable expectation is electrification from Union station to Brampton. That's about 200 trains worth in 2015. Anything which goes beyond that will be diesel.

Which makes sense since these long haul trains won't be doing the frequent stopping where elctricity is best, and their lower frequency doesn't justify the installation of wires all the way to Kitchener.
 
At the very least, Metrolinx should be sending out an RFP to manufacturers to design an EMU for the future.
 
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