torontocolin
Active Member
Right, so now it will again be silver only for UPX, no matter where you're travelling, and higher fares than GO. Not as high as before, mind you, but still higher than if you grabbed a Kitchener GO train instead.
I just called GO customer service on this. There's confusion to say the least. They have nothing published in writing, and also the protocol to use if a fare is checked on the train, and found to be the GO fare, not the UPX one.AMA has confirmed that they'll go back to the old system: UPX riders all use the silver tap points, GO riders use the green.
"I just called GO customer service on this. There's confusion to say the least. They have nothing published in writing, and also the protocol to use if a fare is checked on the train, and found to be the GO fare, not the UPX one."
I have trouble believing this, the more I read. I don't think AMA quite gets the complexity of the questions put to her. Even if Presto doesn't calculate a GO ticket (fare) checked on UPX by a staff fare checker as being eligible for a 'deep discount', the utilization of both fare systems on UP Express other than from/to the airport seems indicated.Right, so now it will again be silver only for UPX, no matter where you're travelling, and higher fares than GO.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...t-fares-on-short-go-transit-trips-to-370.htmlThe proposed fare changes wouldn’t apply to the Union Pearson Express.
The Metrolinx board is expected to debate the new GO fare structure at its April 10 meeting.
Good, let UPX be a premium service, because it is a premium service.Proposed bylaw changes went up today. All UPX trips would require silver UPX PRESTO points. Fares would no longer be aligned with GO. The worst part: they're taking away the co-fare for trips not involving Union station. So UPX users are actually losing something here.
Yeah, I raised that question prior. Good digging. It's going to be a Presto cluster-puck. The software is already severely limited in terms of algorithmic options, how's it going to deal with this?The worst part: they're taking away the co-fare for trips not involving Union station.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...s-to-operate-union-pearson-express-train.htmlDespite record ridership, how much it costs to operate Union Pearson Express remains a secret
By Ben SpurrTransportation Reporter
Wed., Aug. 22, 2018
Monthly ridership on the Union Pearson Express hit a record high this summer, marking a positive milestone for the airport train service that initially struggled to attract customers when it launched three years ago.
But while ridership is better than ever, Metrolinx said this week it couldn’t tell the public how much the train is costing taxpayers to operate.
And the new Progressive Conservative government declined to commit to publishing the numbers, despite the fact that when the party was in opposition it criticized the former Liberal government for not releasing UP Express operating costs.
According to Metrolinx, the provincial agency that operates GO Transit and the UP Express, in June more than 417,000 passengers rode the line, which cost $456 million to build and connects Pearson airport to Union Station downtown.
The ridership figures represented an increase of 20 per cent compared to June of last year, and were a record high for a single month.
The agency attributed the spike in part to 60,000 tickets purchased for a Rotarian conference in late June. In July, ridership fell to 356,000, but the agency says that was the second-highest monthly ridership for the service so far.
Read more:
Union Pearson Express ridership up, but still heavily subsidized
What you need to know about the TTC’s new 2-hour transfer policy
Toronto’s red light cameras catch a record number of red light runners in 2017
Annual ridership is also on the rise. During the fiscal year that ended in March, 3.5 million people rode the UP Express, up from 2.76 million the year before.
While Metrolinx released the ridership numbers to the Star, a spokesperson for the agency said in an emailed statement it couldn’t release figures showing how much it costs to operate the UP Express, or how much each ride is subsidized by taxpayers, because “Metrolinx considers all of its rail operations — GO and UP — to be part of one network.”
“We do not break down the funding of each line of the network,” said Anne Marie Aikins in the statement.
Metrolinx has published UP Express operating costs in the past. But Aikins said that the service has now been more closely integrated with Metrolinx’s other divisions and doesn’t have a separate budget.
The operating costs and per-ride subsidy level for the UP Express have been closely scrutinized since the former Liberal government launched the line in June 2015.
The Liberals initially pledged the train would generate enough fare revenue to break even on operating costs, but the original one-way fare of $27.50 for trips between the airport to downtown, or $19 using a Presto fare card, proved too steep for many would-be customers. Early ridership was dismal.
In its first 10 months of operation, the UP Express cost the public an astonishing $52 per ride, a subsidy far higher than for other publicly-funded transportation services in the region.
After the Liberals ordered Metrolinx to slash fares in March 2016, the subsidy fell to about $11 per ride for the fiscal year that ended March 2017. In both years it cost Metrolinx about $63 million to operate the service.
An adult fare between Union and Pearson now costs $12.35, or $9.25 with a Presto card.
With ridership increasing, the per ride subsidy for the most recent fiscal year would be lower than $11 recorded in 2017, unless the train’s operating costs also increased substantially since then. But Metrolinx has abandoned the idea that the UP Express will generate enough revenue to recoup its costs.
“Like all public transit, UP Express requires an operating subsidy to ensure it is affordable for customers. Our goal is to ensure it remains both affordable and economical to operate and to get the subsidy level as low as possible,” Aikins said.
Asked if the operating costs and subsidy level should be made public, a spokesperson for Transportation Minister John Yakabuski sent the Star a brief statement.
“We have launched a comprehensive line-by-line audit of government spending. This will review all projects and spending committed to by the last government. We will have more to say once the audit is completed later this summer,” wrote Justine Lewkowicz.
Last year, after it had become clear the UP Express wouldn’t pay for itself, the opposition Conservatives demanded the former Liberal government publish the service’s operating costs so the public would know how much the line would need to be subsidized in the long term.
“(The government) wants to distract you with how many people are riding the train,” then-transportation critic Michael Harris told the Toronto Sun in March 2017. “But more importantly, the taxpayers need to know how much are they actually subsidizing?”
In an interview Tuesday, Jessica Bell, NDP MPP for University-Rosedale, rejected Metrolinx’s assertion that it can’t release the UP Express operating costs because the line is part of the agency’s wider network.
“It’s a silly argument,” she said.
“They have the data, they should release that. We have a right to know how our taxpayer dollars are being spent. I don’t understand what they have to hide.”
Metrolinx says that between 75 and 80 per cent of UP Express passengers are airport travellers, but the lower fares have also attracted commuters and people attending sports games and other events downtown.
Then since it's for the 'special people' and not just your run of the mill taxpayer who's funding it, and Metrolinx considers it bound into GO, then set ticket prices at at least the farebox return ratio of the wider GO system, approx 80 cents on the Dollar.a spokesperson for the agency said in an emailed statement it couldn’t release figures showing how much it costs to operate the UP Express, or how much each ride is subsidized by taxpayers, because “Metrolinx considers all of its rail operations — GO and UP — to be part of one network.”
It's limited ... but if it can knock $1.50 off a TTC trip after a GO trip, and $1.50 on a GO trip, after a TTC trip, why can't it do some kind of discount on a UP trip after a GO trip, etc.?Yeah, I raised that question prior. Good digging. It's going to be a Presto cluster-puck. The software is already severely limited in terms of algorithmic options, how's it going to deal with this?
That would at least have a degree of consistency to it...the only concession they're offering is connecting through Union. And I'd like to know how Presto can handle that much in terms of deductive sophistication. It was that lack of complex calculation ability which was offered as an excuse for not offering more complex transfers throughout the GTHA onto other fare systems, let alone why they had to keep UPX and GO fare systems separate due to the premium fare for the last stretch to the airport. So now suddenly, their claims have altered. Amazing what a Metrolinx Board Meeting can do.It's limited ... but if it can knock $1.50 off a TTC trip after a GO trip, and $1.50 on a GO trip, after a TTC trip, why can't it do some kind of discount on a UP trip after a GO trip, etc.?
Think about that for a while...“We do not break down the funding of each line of the network,” said Anne Marie Aikins in the statement.
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20170628/20170628_BoardMtg_Fare_Report_EN.pdfAccording to Subsection 8.1(3) of the Metrolinx Act, 2006, S.O. 2006, c.16 (the “Act”), the Board is required to pass by-laws to establish the fares that will be charged for transit services. Before passing any by-law changing the fares, the Act requires Metrolinx to hold a meeting of the Board open to the public (Subsection 11(3)) and to provide written notice to the Minister of Transportation (the “Minister”) (Subsection 8.1(4)). In accordance with the Act, Metrolinx has advised the Minister of its intent to introduce a fare increase, effective September 2, 2017.
Shooting one foot to spite the other. It doesn't make sense when judged by what they're stating as being policy elsewhere. Either someone's got this really wrong, and it will be changed before becoming policy (Metrolinx have certainly done this recently, the Milton fiasco was theirs first time, Yurek's the second) or this is instituted and blows up then.They're clearly choosing not to apply the co-fare, because if you travel through Pearson it will work. So if you go Pearson to Bloor and board the subway, you get the co-fare, but if you go Weston to Bloor, you don't.
This might be fine if they upped GO service in the corridor instead. But they're essentially saying they don't want local riders on the UPX anymore (at the same time that they're saying they actively want more local riders on GO) without providing a viable alternative.
I couldn't agree more. I live right next to the corridor, and there's not a moment I don't think: "What a waste of a magnificent corridor". It's something many other cities would die for, and having trains running every five minutes in each direction.How about metrolinx just increase service on the kitchener corridor already. Instead of this manufactured class battle of "rich business travellers " at the airport vs the "poor everyday folks"
The corridor is wide enough to support both services and the demand is clearly there.
This is key! It's twisted irony that Metrolinx wants to kill the golden goose that laid the UPX egg. If there wasn't the demand, it could be easily dismissed, but there is demand, the very demand that Verster claims he wishes to cultivate and serve.the demand is clearly there.
They have said on twitter they are more interested in keeping capacity for airport travellers. What's next when the trains reach capacity in peak hours? Do you have to have a boarding pass to use the UPX? I wouldn't be surprised if off peak ridership drop by 10% without TTC discount or GO loyalty.They're clearly choosing not to apply the co-fare, because if you travel through Pearson it will work. So if you go Pearson to Bloor and board the subway, you get the co-fare, but if you go Weston to Bloor, you don't.
This might be fine if they upped GO service in the corridor instead. But they're essentially saying they don't want local riders on the UPX anymore (at the same time that they're saying they actively want more local riders on GO) without providing a viable alternative.