ShonTron
Moderator
If the Kitchener Line had Lakeshore Line service hours and frequencies, it wouldn't be an issue. I also don't get removing the TTC co-fare. Isn't it a logical connection for airport commuters too at Bloor and Union Stations?
If the Kitchener Line had Lakeshore Line service hours and frequencies, it wouldn't be an issue. I also don't get removing the TTC co-fare. Isn't it a logical connection for airport commuters too at Bloor and Union Stations?
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
There's no confusion. The UPX is an fast connection to the airport, it is Weston commuters who have muddied the waters by demanding that the service be priced to compete with commuter options.
The original pricing model may have been off but putting it in the commuter sphere was also a mistake. Instead of demanding that an express premium service be priced like regular service commuters should be demanding that GO put more trains on the line....
But ahhh. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
The original pricing model may have been off but putting it in the commuter sphere was also a mistake. Instead of demanding that an express premium service be priced like regular service commuters should be demanding that GO put more trains on the line....
But ahhh. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
raptor
Senior Member
It's called a sense of entitlement. Weston commuters think they are entitled to lower fares just because they have a station in their backyard.
johntauren
Active Member
I wouldn't call it a sense of entitlement to be annoyed for fares to be lowered from the original price only to then be raised back up again from the next change of government.
raptor
Senior Member
You're right, they shouldn't have been lowered in the first place
nfitz
Superstar
Particularly when the promises of full-day service on the GO line have yet to be achieved - which would really mitigate most of the issues. This is especially galling off-peak and particular on weekends, when the fare for some stations combos is now almost triple what would be paid just using GO - and the UP trains aren't even at capacity at those times.
Oldmanyells
New Member
Why can't they run all day go service? Does anyone know what the cost of a go train is? Or is it an issue of track capacity?
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Than their issue is with GO/MLX's ridiculous service levels, not with the UPX's fares. They should be knocking down doors at GO/MLX demanding more GO trains
ShonTron
Moderator
Three reasons:
1. the project was never completely finished. The fourth track, which would provide all the necessary track capacity without any conflicts, was never laid, though it has been roughed in. (Forget, for a moment, that the Japanese can run two-way local and limited stop services on a single track corridor between Kyoto and Nara.) It will also require expanding the underpass at Highway 401 and removing Etobicoke North Station.
2. At Bramalea, the corridor joins the CN mainline. GO can run hourly two-directional service past there (it does during midday weekdays), but it needs a third track at least through Downtown Brampton, or the "missing link" bypass. Still, GO should be able to run more frequent local trains to Bramalea, once station work is done there, but until problem 1 is addresed, it's unlikely.
3. UP Express was underbuilt and designed as a premium airport service. The stations at Pearson and Union can only handle three-car trains, which are built for comfort, rather than capacity. as a political project, UP Express had priority over the larger GO market.
The "entitled" Weston and Bloor commuters were never really considered, until Metrolinx was embarrassed into making UP Express useful by lowering fares and making it useful for commuters.
vic
Senior Member
Pretty funny what Metrolinx calls the residents along the line though... 
steveintoronto
Superstar
lol...compared to what some of 'the residents along the line' call Metrolinx minions, "residue" is tame. At a time when the Davenport Diamond directly adjacent has open-wounds dealing with these folks, the timing and choice of words couldn't be worse.Pretty funny what Metrolinx calls the residents along the line though...
I wonder what word was intended? 'Resident'? Speech wreck cog ignition should not be used in situations like these. It's bad enough texting with it. I'd be interested in reading that entire newsletter.
dowlingm
Senior Member
As far as UPX capacity goes, one can theorise why they have chosen not to acquire more Nippon Sharyo cars from Japan to max out the fleet as capable of 12 minute frequency using all three-car trains including sufficient capital/maintenance spares. It could be cost, it could be not wanting more cars of a fleet if the long term aim is now to replace rather than repower. It could be that they just can't be bothered.
As long as airport demand can be fulfilled by removing co-fare, GTAA won't complain or contribute to vehicles (and indeed some of the changes made may be coming from GTAA displeasure at airport travellers being displaced by intra-416 commuters or sports fans)
So, who benefits from maxing out UP's potential and lifting capacity back to the point where TTC co-fares can be reasonably accommodated, and remove footfall from other suburb-downtown services? Well, the City does.
As long as airport demand can be fulfilled by removing co-fare, GTAA won't complain or contribute to vehicles (and indeed some of the changes made may be coming from GTAA displeasure at airport travellers being displaced by intra-416 commuters or sports fans)
So, who benefits from maxing out UP's potential and lifting capacity back to the point where TTC co-fares can be reasonably accommodated, and remove footfall from other suburb-downtown services? Well, the City does.
crs1026
Superstar
^Much of what get complained about re UPE will sort itself out when the tunnel and fourth track is completed and proper 2WAD GO is achieved.
A colleague who is involved in community politics in Weston tells me that while people up there like the convenience of UPE, there is now backlash because of the volume of commuters driving to the station and parking on the backstreets. A case of “be careful what you ask for” if there ever was one.....although I’m not sure that the residents ever originally asked for UPE to connect them with downtown.... it more evolved because GO service hasn’t kept up with demand, while UPE needed the ridership after an embarassing start.
- Paul
A colleague who is involved in community politics in Weston tells me that while people up there like the convenience of UPE, there is now backlash because of the volume of commuters driving to the station and parking on the backstreets. A case of “be careful what you ask for” if there ever was one.....although I’m not sure that the residents ever originally asked for UPE to connect them with downtown.... it more evolved because GO service hasn’t kept up with demand, while UPE needed the ridership after an embarassing start.
- Paul
Mapleson
Active Member
The initial UPX fleet of 18 cars was an add-on to California’s SMART order in order to meet the PanAm Games timeline. The NS trains in Japan are not FRA compliant. If trains aren’t already in production, a small order comes with a big price tag per vehicle. Also, the UPX fleet is convertible to EMUs.
With the future of UPX in question, as to remaining a stand-alone fleet, it doesn’t really make sense to invest until the dust settles.
dowlingm
Senior Member
While MLX was assured the cars were convertible, we have no idea where those assurances stand with the Illinois plant shuttered (i.e. was the repower supposed to happen there or in Toronto); in any event, UPX vehicle availability would be substantially affected by a repower and retest programme, I suspect.
As for new trains, they are largely built in Japan before they were shipped to Illinois for finishing to meet Buy America. Given the state of US-Canada trade relations (today's news notwithstanding), it might be cheaper to ship an additional (finished) order direct from Japan and roll them over from Vancouver. At least then UP wouldn't have a chance to damage them https://www.metro-magazine.com/rail...costing-11m-damaged-before-arriving-at-agency