[Prometheus The Supremo]

i question the idea that delaying the project = "increased death due to more cars on the road" and this is why we should accept it.

if the goal is to reduce cars on the road thus preventing accidents which lead to death, shouldn't we be building a high capacity transit link with an affordable fare? this would take way more people off the road than an express train with a high fare. you can argue that building this project in its current form will "kill babies" because its not using the corridor to its fullest potential.

we can take X amount of cars off the road within a few years

OR

we can take substantialy more than X amount of cars off the road but starting a bit later.

which one takes more cars off the road in the long term? which one saves more lives in the long term?

 

[urbanboom]

Why devalue historic urban communities when we have technology to minimize the impact of increased service?

And why not remove the Gardiner while we're at it? How about some electric trains instead of that thing?

 

[hbl33]

And why not remove the Gardiner while we're at it? How about some electric trains instead of that thing?

That's a scary compromising idea if done overnight!

 

[junctionist]

And why not remove the Gardiner while we're at it? How about some electric trains instead of that thing?

Trains and intensification around stations will reduce the need for it. Unfortunately many are simply indifferent to the thought of making the urban environment cleaner and quieter. But a lot of progress can be made. Or the neighbourhoods could just slide while more housing is added outside the city.

 

[doady]

I think diesel train take cars off the roads too. And I'm sure cars contribute way more pollution than diesel trains. It is sad how cars are always ignored when it comes to pollution. Like in the drive-in protests against the natural gas plant in Oakville and Clarkson, or the protests against Mississauga Transit buses in Etobicoke. I think people fail to see the bigger picture. I gues it is easier for people to criticize and incovenience others than to criticise and inconvenience themselves.

 

[junctionist]

Anyone who wants to see electric trains is inherently seeing the bigger picture. In fact, that perspective is greater than that of the diesel train apologist's. It takes into account the existing urban fabric as well as the transportation needs of those living on the periphery.

 

[Tdot_one]

You want to significantly reduce pollution? Turn Dundas and Queen St into car-free corridors!

 

[Long Island Mike]

GO Electrification: It's NOT that easy...

Everyone: I noticed this and remember the www.cleantrain.ca/ group and again I say "It is NOT that easy to electrify the entire GO Rail system."

First: GO would have to get agreements with CN and CP for lines they do not own or control to electrify them. The Lakeshore Line should be priority#1 there when GO and/or VIA can take control of them...

Second: Think of the expenses of electrification: Stringing miles of wires and equipping them with a power distrubution system and the required substations. A new group of locomotives(Perhaps like NJ Transit's new ALP46A
electrics)or MU(Multiple Unit) cars would have to be procured and built-perhaps like the Montreal MR70 MU cars on the AMT Deux-Montagnes line and with a large enough fleet to "bump" the current bilevel cars to other routes.

Third: Funding - For a ambitious project like this the cost will probably be in C$ billions - does anyone know how this will be funded and also how much fares may have to increase to even attempt to pay for a project like this?

Do not get me wrong-I am all for expanding the GO Rail system and I am a proponent of electrifying where possible but again I say "It's NOT that easy..."

Comments and insight from LI MIKE

 

[hbl33]

You want to significantly reduce pollution? Turn Dundas and Queen St into car-free corridors!

Same for Yonge St. (between Front and Lawrence), known for crowdest even at outside the rush hour. My other nomination is Bloor between Dundas and Shelbourne.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think in an ideal world of course all of GO would be electrified, but my question is this: is it worth delaying a project that will take cars off the road (and reduce pollution) to wait for electric trains?

 

[saveyorksouthweston]

I think in an ideal world of course all of GO would be electrified, but my question is this: is it worth delaying a project that will take cars off the road (and reduce pollution) to wait for electric trains?

I do not see how the ARL will actually remove any cars from our streets. At $25-$30 per person and then many times needing to take a cab or board the subway to your location who is really going to take this train?

A business traveller will most likely take an airport limo since its at company expense and will actually drop you off infront of your desitination.
A family of 4 travelling would pay at minumum $100 to travel from Union to the Airport, plus they would need to get to Union station. Whats not to say someone would just ask a neighbour to drop them off at the Airport and give the neighbour $100?


The ARL will serve a purpose, but it must be an affordable transit mode that would target a greater percentage of riders. To this day, I still believe it should be electric, operated by GO Transit and should not only be a Union to the Airport Link, but should have multiple stops along the way. Ticket cost per ride per person needs to be lower as well.

 

[RedRocket191]

I think in an ideal world of course all of GO would be electrified, but my question is this: is it worth delaying a project that will take cars off the road (and reduce pollution) to wait for electric trains?

In my humble opinion, no.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

IMO, pertaining to the expansion area of the georgetown GO line, don't delay GO expansion and at the very minimum, build this expansion with anticipation of electrification in the future. do a rough-in so it can accommodate electrification and upgrade to being electrified when the time comes.


pertaining to the blue22 component, at the very least, this should be built to accommodate a future high capacity rapid transit system. leave allowances for future stations and design the trackwork accordingly. it shouldn't take too long to electrify this line as it is not that long in distance. and from when it opens, regardless of the option chosen to construct, the fare should be similar to that of GO transit fare with zones.

 

[Jaguar4u]

Long Island Mike;345404]Everyone: I noticed this and remember the www.cleantrain.ca/ group and again I say "It is NOT that easy to electrify the entire GO Rail system."

First: GO would have to get agreements with CN and CP for lines they do not own or control to electrify them. The Lakeshore Line should be priority#1 there when GO and/or VIA can take control of them...

Second: Think of the expenses of electrification: Stringing miles of wires and equipping them with a power distrubution system and the required substations. A new group of locomotives(Perhaps like NJ Transit's new ALP46A
electrics)or MU(Multiple Unit) cars would have to be procured and built-perhaps like the Montreal MR70 MU cars on the AMT Deux-Montagnes line and with a large enough fleet to "bump" the current bilevel cars to other routes.

Third: Funding - For a ambitious project like this the cost will probably be in C$ billions - does anyone know how this will be funded and also how much fares may have to increase to even attempt to pay for a project like this?

Do not get me wrong-I am all for expanding the GO Rail system and I am a proponent of electrifying where possible but again I say "It's NOT that easy..."

Comments and insight from LI MIKE

I agree with Lakeshore Line being a priority. Then again, that is the one I use often. It bothers be that there are only 4 semi-express trains from Union to Hamilton, but Express busses go every 5 min most of the daytime hours. I always see 5 of more Express busses stuck in traffic on the overburdened QEW on my way to Hamilton. When I was in Germany, I took trains to every small and large cities. You do not hear of busses. That's why the Autobahn has no traffic. Not to mention, everyone keeeps to the right except when passing. But that's another story
Oh, and the trains in Germany are Electric

The money needs to come from the Federal and Provincial governments, in that order. Mostly Federal. They have most of our tax dollars. We need to invest in our country. We need to become that World Class city that we want to be. We need to stand up to our leaders and be heard. They need to stop wasting our tax dollars, and spend it properly.

We need a united voice.

 

[Jaguar4u]

Comments and insight from LI MIKE[/QUOTE]

IMO, pertaining to the expansion area of the georgetown GO line, don't delay GO expansion and at the very minimum, build this expansion with anticipation of electrification in the future. do a rough-in so it can accommodate electrification and upgrade to being electrified when the time comes.


pertaining to the blue22 component, at the very least, this should be built to accommodate a future high capacity rapid transit system. leave allowances for future stations and design the trackwork accordingly. it shouldn't take too long to electrify this line as it is not that long in distance. and from when it opens, regardless of the option chosen to construct, the fare should be similar to that of GO transit fare with zones.

Great ideas Thank-you