[nfitz]

I would think they would get a lot of business from the the ACC, considering there aren't a lot of food options in the area as well as the tens of thousands of people using the PATH just to get to SouthCore and the waterfront on a daily basis.If I was using GO and had an extra ten-twenty minutes I would be more than happy with the amount of food options one floor below.

Normally when walk through the ACC it's pretty quiet - though there's more people recently with the new connection south.

I'd expect that much of the food court in Union station would be closed in evenings and weekends when games are on - surely that kind of space must be for business use.

 

[mdrejhon]

most people will be entering the station from the bottom level, it is where the subway and PATH connections are.

There's really an incredible number of people entering Union from this route. It makes sense to channel all the people through that area. The massive center stairs provides a convenient route from TTC straight up to the platform area. What surprises me is that the food is more towards the York-side rather than the Bay-side; I'd think there'd be more food business if it was on the other side. On the other hand, maybe they wanted to put the food court out of the way from the incredible traffic flow from TTC.

I suspect they're designing a "Urban Eatery" style or "Washingon Union Station" higher-end food court, since that's been the sort of fancy food court templates as of late. That, in itself, would definitely be an attraction for me, e.g. deciding to eat dinner there and catching a later Lakeshore GO train. With all-evening service on Lakeshore, I often find myself deciding where to eat downtown before heading to Union. I also observe there's some large food space, so there must be several full-fledged restaurants with seating within. If this is a better food court, and a bunch of nice yummy restaurants, I definitely would sometimes go to Union to eat my dinner before commuting home!

to access the smells that will make them hungry?

The massive center stairs is a big hole in the middle of the floor of the York concourse, so the rising warm air from below should carry a lot of good smell upwards -- so I bet the York concourse users will become hungrier than Bay concourse users.

I'd expect that much of the food court in Union station would be closed in evenings and weekends when games are on - surely that kind of space must be for business use.

Nope, not for business-only use (not a convention center).

All consumer food court and sit-in restaurants! It's a big upgrade for Union. The flat green you see, is the food court seating/tables, surrounding the massive York staircase. The large green establishments are sit-in restaurants, plus possibly market restaurants (like "Richtree" or "La Marche").

As GO service expands to all-day bidirectional service on all routes, especially with future 15-minute rail service, I think they will keep it open late, if they are following an fancy food court template. With better all-day service, some people will opt to skip a train or two, while grabbing food, once there's no "missing the last train" threat. All-day 30 minute service to Brampton/Mt. Pleasant could be feasible by 2016-2017, after the Georgetown Corridor kinks are ironed out and Union revitalization is well finished. Then we'd have 3 GO lines running all day 30-minute service, and 1 line running 15-min-or-better service (UPX). And VIA users, who often arrive earlier to the station than GO users.

All that begins to provide a sustainable business model for a large food court at Union, and as many lines eventually gains 15-minute service, in the GO RER initiatives, a Union Station food court will be incredibly busy in 10-15 years with 2-3 times the traffic going through Union. Better to design it for a massive flagship-league food court now because we'll be stuck with the new station layout for several decades.

Union, after 2016, will be more a desirable destination into itself, than it used to be. 2015 is only a peek, as it will not be busy enough to be fully open, they said it will all open in stages. I believe 2017+ is when the food fun really begins, when enough demand is online to make the entire court sustainable.

 

[mrxbombastic]

With Telus House, PWC and eventually 16 (18?) York Street coming online, and with only their SFC and MLS food court to serve them, I suspect we will see many office workers from these spaces coming into union. Its also worth noting that Brookfield Place, and RBC food courts and JAM Packed at lunch times so it logical that some overflow will come into union station.

That said, i speculate the food-retail balance may be overly egenrous food wise but that is just my wild speculation.

That said, I think the larger offering of food mean we may get some fast food diversity as chains will likely look to see which close operations will they chose to keep/expand/consolidate while putting up other spaces up for takeover by different vendors. Personally Tabouli in the CIBC/RBC PATH food court building is one of my favourites, always has a line, and as far as I can tell has no other locations in the PATH. Fingers crossed.

Additionally, with AD2W GO service and a large population of students accessing the GBC waterfront campus through union station there will be higher throughput of people in the station helping to drive off-peak traffic and demand for food.

 

[interchange42]

Not all of what you see in green on those diagrams are aimed at consumption on the spot. There's also going to be quite a number of market type food shops at Union for those looking to bring items home for dinner, both meals to go, and ingredients for home cooking. If shops at Union can divert some of the spend that was going to occur on the car ride home from the GO parking lot in Suburban Community X, then they'll also make it easier for some GO passengers to ride the bus to and from the GO station in those bedroom communities by making that end of the commute more direct.

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[flyinggoats]

Not all of what you see in green on those diagrams are aimed at consumption on the spot. There's also going to be quite a number of market type food shops at Union for those looking to bring items home for dinner, both meals to go, and ingredients for home cooking. If shops at Union can divert some of the spend that was going to occur on the car ride home from the GO parking lot in Suburban Community X, then they'll also make it easier for some GO passengers to ride the bus to and from the GO station in those bedroom communities by making that end of the commute more direct.

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Would be great for one of those renovated Shopper's Drug Marts that have fresh produce, food to go, etc.

 

[apayette89]

Not all of what you see in green on those diagrams are aimed at consumption on the spot. There's also going to be quite a number of market type food shops at Union for those looking to bring items home for dinner, both meals to go, and ingredients for home cooking. If shops at Union can divert some of the spend that was going to occur on the car ride home from the GO parking lot in Suburban Community X, then they'll also make it easier for some GO passengers to ride the bus to and from the GO station in those bedroom communities by making that end of the commute more direct.

42

An LCBO would be a nice amenity to have here, in my opinion.

Of course, there is the issue that most (all?) peak-time trains are packed and people have little room to bring a bag of groceries or a few bottles of wine along with them for the ride..

 

[Markster]

Of course, there is the issue that most (all?) peak-time trains are packed and people have little room to bring a bag of groceries or a few bottles of wine along with them for the ride..

Another advantage to grocery options available at Union, is that it can delay your departure by a train or two, and usually that will mean a less crowded train.

 

[wopchop]

An LCBO would be a nice amenity to have here, in my opinion.

Of course, there is the issue that most (all?) peak-time trains are packed and people have little room to bring a bag of groceries or a few bottles of wine along with them for the ride..

LCBO would do well. I wouldn't be surprised to see it return. The old LCBO in Union Station was extremely busy.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

An LCBO would be a nice amenity to have here, in my opinion.

Of course, there is the issue that most (all?) peak-time trains are packed and people have little room to bring a bag of groceries or a few bottles of wine along with them for the ride..

There used to be an LCBO there so I would not be surprised to see it return. However new LCBO locations have opened in RBC tower and MLS tower so I am wondering if a third location would be worthwhile. Maybe a VQA Ontario wine specialty type store.

*** EDIT ***

Re. Passengers milling about. I think we need to keep in mind that today's current passenger movements will change and be greatly affected by the opening of the York concourse. The Bay concourse right now is so busy because it is where Go passengers load their trains. However I think once the York concourse opens you will see a greater number of people using it over the Bay Concourse. There are a large number of people coming to Union from office to the West of the station and would likely rather stay at the closer concourse rather than walk over to the Bay side. Furthermore with Go moving it's ticketing operations over to the York side I think the vast majority of Go passenger will start to use the York side.

 

[DavidH]

... However I think once the York concourse opens you will see a greater number of people using it over the Bay Concourse. There are a large number of people coming to Union from office to the West of the station and would likely rather stay at the closer concourse rather than walk over to the Bay side. Furthermore with Go moving it's ticketing operations over to the York side I think the vast majority of Go passenger will start to use the York side.

This is the first I've heard of GO "moving" its ticketing operations as opposed to simply selling tickets in the concourse that will be open for the next phase of construction. Note that GO is setting up temporary ticket sales in the Bay teamway (**see below), for example. I'd be stunned if Bay Concourse won't have ticket sales once it re-opens. Have you heard anything firm?

As for which concourse will be busier - some people will certainly simply go to the closer concourse as they enter the station. Others may, if time permits, walk through the station to the other concourse (either via the promenades or the retail level) so that they board the train near where their platform exit will be at their destination. I think it's really hard to say which effect will be stronger. My guess (and that's all it is) is that usage will balance itself out over the first few weeks of having both concourses in operation.

** And speaking of those temporary ticket sales at Bay Teamway, kudos to GO for trying out hearing aid induction loop technology to make it easier for those using hearing aids to communicate with ticket agents. Personally I've always found that technology (telecoils) to be far more annoying than helpful, but I'm sure there are people with other experiences, and it's great to see them trying this out - particularly in a location which is bound to have a fair bit of street noise.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

This is the first I've heard of GO "moving" its ticketing operations as opposed to simply selling tickets in the concourse that will be open for the next phase of construction. Note that GO is setting up temporary ticket sales in the Bay teamway (**see below), for example. I'd be stunned if Bay Concourse won't have ticket sales once it re-opens. Have you heard anything firm?

As for which concourse will be busier - some people will certainly simply go to the closer concourse as they enter the station. Others may, if time permits, walk through the station to the other concourse (either via the promenades or the retail level) so that they board the train near where their platform exit will be at their destination. I think it's really hard to say which effect will be stronger. My guess (and that's all it is) is that usage will balance itself out over the first few weeks of having both concourses in operation.

** And speaking of those temporary ticket sales at Bay Teamway, kudos to GO for trying out hearing aid induction loop technology to make it easier for those using hearing aids to communicate with ticket agents. Personally I've always found that technology (telecoils) to be far more annoying than helpful, but I'm sure there are people with other experiences, and it's great to see them trying this out - particularly in a location which is bound to have a fair bit of street noise.

This image:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41784&d=1424411572

Seems to show that GO is installing permanent wickets in the York Concourse, as to whether they are removing the wickets from the Bay concourse I am not sure to be honest.

 

[innsertnamehere]

both concourses will have wickets.

 

[interchange42]

This image:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41784&d=1424411572

Seems to show that GO is installing permanent wickets in the York Concourse, as to whether they are removing the wickets from the Bay concourse I am not sure to be honest.

The entire Bay Concourse will be closing once the York Concourse opens, as it has to be dug out and rebuilt. It will probably be a couple of years before it reopens with new wickets. That's why temporary wickets are going into the Bay Teamway: Union Station is going to be a bit of a zoo for a while yet as people are diverted here and there around the construction.

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[mdrejhon]

The entire Bay Concourse will be closing once the York Concourse opens, as it has to be dug out and rebuilt. It will probably be a couple of years before it reopens with new wickets. That's why temporary wickets are going into the Bay Teamway: Union Station is going to be a bit of a zoo for a while yet as people are diverted here and there around the construction.

What is Union Station's plan to divert TTC users? Will they be able to open an indoor PATH connection to York concourse at the same time as closing the Bay concourse? I'll probably continue to mainly use the Bay teamways (which will remain open) most of the time, but it would be nice to know what the options are for getting to York concourse in bad weather, while Bay is shutdown for two years.

both concourses will have wickets.

It's good to know both Bay and York concourses will have wickets. I think Bay concourse will still stay somewhat more popular among commuters due to TTC, while the York concourse will quickly become popular partially because of the food court underneath, and its proximity to lots of downtown office towers. They designed Bay concourse with slightly more stairs/escalators than York, reflecting its direct connection to TTC.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What is Union Station's plan to divert TTC users? Will they be able to open an indoor PATH connection to York concourse at the same time as closing the Bay concourse? I'll probably continue to mainly use the Bay teamways (which will remain open) most of the time, but it would be nice to know what the options are for getting to York concourse in bad weather, while Bay is shutdown for two years.

I think it's going to be underneath the center bridge out the Union Subway station and then underneath the west moat, which is supposed to get a glass cover but I am not convinced it will be ready.

AoD