Just a heads up,

The rest of the Bay Concourse closes after rush hour tomorrow to allow for further demolition and construction. There is a post on City of Toronto - Union Station website and on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UnionStati...222741203919/1345103508882497/?type=3&theater

As Ed Drass pointed out there is limited signage notifying people of this and if I read the post correct the only access will be via the Leather Shop By-pass
 
Did they settle on a moat cover design yet? We've seen several through the years. I hope that it'll be in keeping with the rest of the station's glass additions. Black mullions reminiscent of old train station iron features. Other renders have shown silver or white mullions but that was before the interior design features had been settled on.

EDIT: Looks like my suspicions were correct. That's exactly what the latest rendering shows. Black iron-like mullions and pillars:

Early render:
urbantoronto-1230-3702.jpg


Latest render:
1230-64065.jpeg


Is this what's being built?

I'm a little concerned about how it'll effect the historical exterior aesthetic of the station from Front Street. It appears that the moat covers may be set lower than the existing walls so they may be invisible to viewers standing on Front.
 
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Bay Concourse was actually closed already this morning. At 8:15AM traffic flow was pretty smooth - all 4 doors through the leather bypass were open.
 
MetroMan said:
Did they settle on a moat cover design yet? We've seen several through the years. I hope that it'll be in keeping with the rest of the station's glass additions. Black mullions reminiscent of old train station iron features. Other renders have shown silver or white mullions but that was before the interior design features had been settled on.

EDIT: Looks like my suspicions were correct. That's exactly what the latest rendering shows. Black iron-like mullions and pillars:

Early render:
urbantoronto-1230-3702.jpg


Latest render:
1230-64065.jpeg


Is this what's being built?

I'm a little concerned about how it'll effect the historical exterior aesthetic of the station from Front Street. It appears that the moat covers may be set lower than the existing walls so they may be invisible to viewers standing on Front.
Click to expand...

I think the moat cover height is more or less comparable. I am more concerned about the polished-concrete aesthetics - it look bare bones cheap like the teamway.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I think the moat cover height is more or less comparable. I am more concerned about the polished-concrete aesthetics - it look bare bones cheap like the teamway.
Click to expand...
It's a very good point. These aspects are often overlooked, and yet to do them properly is a minuscule cost v. the entire budget.

What strikes me immediately is the mistake in the earlier rendering of depicting it far brighter than what it will actually be. Make no mistake, the impression of all that light is wonderful, but the depiction is false not only in the wonderful flood of light, but also the source. Regard the shadows! That would be the product of a dominant point source polar opposite. The mechanics of the structure can't produce that.

The second rendering is far more realistic in the amount of light that would be probable during anything but direct sunshine overhead, but they've taken away the white structures, and in doing so, they've taken away surfaces that will reflect light, rather than absorbing it.

And Alvin's point on the floor is part of that. "Cheap" is an apt term. It's factory-utility afterthought, and the depictions both are far from accurate, but the trend of 'darkness, gloom' is apparent in the second rendering.

Whether that flooring has stone chips in it or not, can't tell, but they're going to have to be *very careful* not to make that a catacomb, on a number of points.

Never overlook the brightening effect of white concrete. It's still a very affordable material at a fraction more than gray concrete, and comes close to looking like polished limestone when finished correctly, not to mention the use of light aggregates in the mix.

See:
White Concrete Floors are at the forefront of design and technical innovation in decorative and industrial concrete floors.
Our experience is immense and so is our expertise. From small-scale art projects to shopping centres and huge factories, we install millions of square metres of concrete flooring every year.

We are experts in industrial concrete flooring, but have taken it to a higher level of design. Like all good artisans, we approach our work with complete professionalism and a willingness to experiment.
[...]
Click to expand...
http://www.whiteconcretefloors.com/
 
Kitsune said:
Once the moat is covered... is it going to be heated and cooled ?
Click to expand...
I was wondering on that too. They might not have to heat it, save for perhaps IR lamps (the thermal loss through the walls would be very high) but in Summer's direct sunshine, they're going to at least have to vent the air, even if it's just thermal convection. I highly suspect it will have to be forced/drawn out. And that circulation would render cooling as a massive waste. Exhausting that air also brings in the problem of doing it with stale air from other concourses attached. It's a very good question...and add in the pneumatic effects from the subway side...
 
steveintoronto said:
I was wondering on that too. They might not have to heat it, save for perhaps IR lamps (the thermal loss through the walls would be very high) but in Summer's direct sunshine, they're going to at least have to vent the air, even if it's just thermal convection. I highly suspect it will have to be forced/drawn out. And that circulation would render cooling as a massive waste. Exhausting that air also brings in the problem of doing it with stale air from other concourses attached. It's a very good question...and add in the pneumatic effects from the subway side...
Click to expand...

No pneumatic effects - firedoors at the station entrance.

AoD
 
steveintoronto said:
And they don't open? The pneumatic effect will be a large factor, even if the opening is gated.
Click to expand...

The lack of a massive amount of airflow at the concourse level even now suggests there are other vents (which I believe there are). The pneumatic effect might not be that large. You might be better off with the solar chimney effect, but it is unclear whether there will be any of that in the current design.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
The lack of a massive amount of airflow at the concourse level even now suggests there are other vents (which I believe there are). The pneumatic effect might not be that large. You might be better off with the solar chimney effect, but it is unclear whether there will be any of that in the current design.

AoD
Click to expand...
It's a very good question....but one solution might be to work with the pneumatic effect rather than against. Door systems to control that only work when the doors aren't opened for movement of passengers. At peak, that's a very real challenge. What do you propose? An air-lock?

Valved venting might be the solution, such that positive pressure from the pneumatic effect (even reduced by double sets of doors) opens the vents to push the air out. On negative pressure swings, air will be drawn in from the GO concourse. There are gated pressure neutralizing techniques (one of the most basic is the off-centre pivot door that almost neutralizes pressure changes) but lets see what others know on what is proposed for HVAC in that covered concourse.

Solar chimney, (convection cooling) is very easily swamped by other more kinetic air-flows, like the pneumatic effect. That's why it would have to be 'pumped' if it is to work. Anyone trying to light two fireplaces at the same time without closed doors from each in a dwelling knows the result of that all too well.
 
bobbob911 said:
Bay Concourse was actually closed already this morning. At 8:15AM traffic flow was pretty smooth - all 4 doors through the leather bypass were open.
Click to expand...

Any word on what's happening at the eastern access points to/from the subway station and Brookfield Place? A lot of folks are habituated to using the Bay Concourse entrances there and now must find their way through the TTC mezzanine, or be forced south onto Bay Street...

NB: There's a not-obvious set of ramps allowing access along the south side of the mezzanine, to the east of the collectors' booths.

PS: Was a bit of confusion in the releases; one said March 3. Was still open at 9:30pm March 2:
Changes to Front Street Moat TTC access
(March 2, 2017) - Access to the TTC through the Bay Street Concourse is scheduled to close after the evening rush hour today (March 2) to allow construction of the new concourse to continue. Access to the TTC from the station and through the Front Street Moat will only be available through the access point off of the VIA Arrivals Concourse.
 
steveintoronto said:
I was wondering on that too. They might not have to heat it, save for perhaps IR lamps (the thermal loss through the walls would be very high) but in Summer's direct sunshine, they're going to at least have to vent the air, even if it's just thermal convection. I highly suspect it will have to be forced/drawn out. And that circulation would render cooling as a massive waste. Exhausting that air also brings in the problem of doing it with stale air from other concourses attached. It's a very good question...and add in the pneumatic effects from the subway side...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that it won't be heated to room temperature, but Union and the surrounding core has district heating and cooling provided by Enwave. The cooling in particular should be easy with the deep-water cooling provided by the lake.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
The cooling in particular should be easy with the deep-water cooling provided by the lake.
Click to expand...
And fresh air? I still want to see an HVAC engineer's dissertation on this particular situation. Enbridge won't be supplying calories pumped in or out at a flat rate, and whether there's regular air movement through that space or not, it presents caloric challenges in terms of massive waste of conditioned air, unless they have some super state-of-the-art heat exchanger rigged.
 
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