This Project is NOT apart of TRANSIT CITY... I think the reason most Torontonians would be against this project is because there really arent many torontonians who live right in the area between Finch and Steeles on Yonge. However building this expansion is the equivelant to opening pandoras box since there are MANY 905 residents who will use the line. Sure some could argue that Torontonians would be able to use the system to get to richmond hill but the reality is that much more 905 users will be using the extension then torontonians... Some might say well weve already gone into vaughan so whats the difference? Vaughan doesnt have nearly as many potential transit users as does the 905 situated right beside Yonge.. Also many people believe the vaughan expansion was a mistake. Why duplicate it? Personally Id like the expansion if I a Torontonian doesnt have to pay a dime..
 
gweed123 said:
I agree. Toronto isn't paying a dime for Transit City, why would they start paying now? I also think that implementing ATO in order to have the capacity to handle the extension is a pretty big contrribution in itself.
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um....the province is paying for ATO...York Region Citizen taxpayers are paying for the ATO just as much as Toronto. Toronto isn't contributing much to handle the capacity.
 
sixrings said:
This Project is NOT apart of TRANSIT CITY...
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I never said it was...

What I said was Toronto hasn't paid a dime for Transit City, so why should they start now with the Yonge extension?

BMO said:
um....the province is paying for ATO...York Region Citizen taxpayers are paying for the ATO just as much as Toronto. Toronto isn't contributing much to handle the capacity.
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I didn't realize the Province was paying for ATO, I thought it was a TTC expense. Thanks for the clarification.
 
if this extension happened wouldnt there need to be a new yard closer to finch? or could a sheppard west extension happen that would allow the trains to quickly get from yonge to wilson?
 
BMO said:
um....the province is paying for ATO...York Region Citizen taxpayers are paying for the ATO just as much as Toronto. Toronto isn't contributing much to handle the capacity.
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Where did you get this?

If you look in the TTC 2012-2016 capital budget, you'll see that the TTC cost for the YUS ATC exceeds Metrolinx funding by $177 million.

It's also somewhat disingenuous to note that York pays for ATO because the funding comes from the province; this ignores the long-reported imbalance where the Province (and Feds) gains more revenue from City of Toronto than it spends.

sixrings said:
if this extension happened wouldnt there need to be a new yard closer to finch?
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I seem to recall discussion that the extension would include a yard north of Highway 7. TTC is already considering storing 10 trains north of Finch starting in 2015.
 
sixrings said:
This Project is NOT apart of TRANSIT CITY... I think the reason most Torontonians would be against this project is because there really arent many torontonians who live right in the area between Finch and Steeles on Yonge.
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Plenty of people live there. You might be confusing Yonge with Bayview.
 
nfitz said:
Where did you get this?

If you look in the TTC 2012-2016 capital budget, you'll see that the TTC cost for the YUS ATC exceeds Metrolinx funding by $177 million.

It's also somewhat disingenuous to note that York pays for ATO because the funding comes from the province; this ignores the long-reported imbalance where the Province (and Feds) gains more revenue from City of Toronto than it spends.
Click to expand...

I could have sworn I was going through a report last week about the extension talking about Ontario paying for ATO to voercome the capacity issues this would cause, I'll post the link if I can find. Maybe I misread it.
 
nfitz said:
Where did you get this?

If you look in the TTC 2012-2016 capital budget, you'll see that the TTC cost for the YUS ATC exceeds Metrolinx funding by $177 million.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. The province announced that ATC was to be fully funded back in 2008. Since then the TTC has blown up the budget for it by 50%. Maybe this is because, according to Steve Munro, they decided to install a second signalling system alongside ATC. You can't blame them for trying to get that extra chunk of change from the province, I suppose! But you can't blame the province for underfunding this project either I think.
 
BMO said:
I could have sworn I was going through a report last week about the extension talking about Ontario paying for ATO to voercome the capacity issues this would cause, I'll post the link if I can find. Maybe I misread it.
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Metrolinx is paying $293 million - as per the second link I had. The total cost however is $470 million (and a similar amount to do Bloor-Danforth in the future). You challenged that the statement that the TTC contribution is a pretty big contribution - I'm not saying the province isn't paying a lot - I'm just saying that I think that $177 million is a pretty big contribution.

At the same time, gweed123 also said that the city isn't paying a dime for Transit City. Which isn't true either, as the city paid 100% of the costs of all the studies on Jane, Don Mills, Waterfront West, and the Scarborough-Malvern line; and will have to refund the province all the costs on Finch West and Eglinton East - and presumably the SRT extension east of McCowan.

k10ery said:
But you can't blame the province for underfunding this project either I think.
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I'm not blaming the province; the province has been very generous. I'm only challenging the belief that the TTC isn't paying some hefty $ for this (unless they can secure further funding).
 
nfitz said:
Metrolinx is paying $293 million - as per the second link I had. The total cost however is $470 million (and a similar amount to do Bloor-Danforth in the future). You challenged that the statement that the TTC contribution is a pretty big contribution - I'm not saying the province isn't paying a lot - I'm just saying that I think that $177 million is a pretty big contribution.
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You're probably right, the report I read was from way back in 2008.
 
nfitz said:
At the same time, gweed123 also said that the city isn't paying a dime for Transit City. Which isn't true either, as the city paid 100% of the costs of all the studies on Jane, Don Mills, Waterfront West, and the Scarborough-Malvern line; and will have to refund the province all the costs on Finch West and Eglinton East - and presumably the SRT extension east of McCowan.
Click to expand...

I was under the assumption that the deals for the studies for those projects were the same as for the ECLRT, FWLRT, SELRT, etc. My bad. And yes, I realize that the costs of the cancelled projects will have to be reimbursed, but I consider that money coming out of a different pot than the project funds themselves. You may not have bought your parents car, but if you're the one who crushes the entire front end of it, you're the one who's going to pay for it.

Even still though, the cost of those studies was at most in the tens of millions, a far cry from the ~$300 million K-W is chipping in for their LRT system, or the $900 million Ottawa is for theirs. If all you have to pay for is a couple studies, in my books you're pretty much getting the line for free (and by free I mean the City isn't paying for it).
 
sixrings said:
This Project is NOT apart of TRANSIT CITY... I think the reason most Torontonians would be against this project is because there really arent many torontonians who live right in the area between Finch and Steeles on Yonge. However building this expansion is the equivelant to opening pandoras box since there are MANY 905 residents who will use the line. Sure some could argue that Torontonians would be able to use the system to get to richmond hill but the reality is that much more 905 users will be using the extension then torontonians... Some might say well weve already gone into vaughan so whats the difference? Vaughan doesnt have nearly as many potential transit users as does the 905 situated right beside Yonge.. Also many people believe the vaughan expansion was a mistake. Why duplicate it? Personally Id like the expansion if I a Torontonian doesnt have to pay a dime..
Click to expand...

Psst... a lot of people from York Region already take buses to Finch Station. An extension north would do more to shorten these commutes than it would to attract brand new ridership.
 
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