Thanks for the info.

Now, if the Yonge/Bloor upgrade is going to cost around $500M while the section of Downtown Core line from downtown to Pape would be in the $1.5-2B range, which project will yield a better return on investment?

Please don't confuse my speculation with actual information.

That said, yes, I think the DRL is a better return on investment and does help a little on Yonge BUT transit city might boost ridership enough that Yonge/Bloor work is required anyway -- so the engineering and legal work should probably be prepped sooner than later.
 
The Metrolinx 2031 peak point ridership numbers for both the Bloor-Danforth and YUS lines are lower than todays current ridership. This is because of the DRL and express Go lines. So I would say that expanding Bloor-Young station is not necessary nor worth the cost.
 
The Metrolinx 2031 peak point ridership numbers for both the Bloor-Danforth and YUS lines are lower than todays current ridership. This is because of the DRL and express Go lines. So I would say that expanding Bloor-Young station is not necessary nor worth the cost.
How much below? The dwell times in the station are already too long, and the platforms are already over-crowded. They'd have to be significant ridership drops to do away with the need to do something.
 
One thing I can say about this project is that the federal money is going to flow abundantly following Peter Kent's election. They should rename it the Thornhill Subway.
 
yorkregion.com News

Richmond Hill Centre preferred for future Yonge subway stop

October 25, 2008 09:53 PM
By: Adam Mc Lean

Councillors expressed their support last week for a preferred alignment into Richmond Hill Centre in the proposed Yonge Street Subway extension project.

Brought forward by the York Region Rapid Transit Corporation, different options, including one option of a subway line travelling right up Yonge Street, were cast aside in favour of a line that would run parallel with current GO Train railway lines, just east of the main street.

Pros and cons were bandied about by council, but the option to run the subway tracks parallel with the GO tracks was seen to provide Richmond Hill the best opportunity to establish an anchor hub for a number of transportation modes.

“This offers an ideal integration of all the major transit routes,†Commissioner of Planning & Development Anna Bassios said.

Tracks leading directly to the Richmond Hill Centre terminal, which is located next to SilverCity Theatres, would provide a unique hub in the GTA, as GO train, Viva and YRT buses, subway and 407 transit could be utilized in current and future planned transit facilities and corridors.

Mary-Frances Turner, vice president of York Region Rapid Transit Corporation, made a presentation to council Oct. 6 regarding the Yonge subway extension and Richmond Hill terminal alignments.

The presentation included information relating to the draft, recommended station locations, key considerations relating to the Longbridge/Langstaff stations acting as a couplet to the Richmond Hill Centre station to ease some traffic and commuter congestion, and future steps in the project that could include an extension to 16th Avenue/Carrville Road.

“From a technical point of view, council’s decision makes the most sense,†Ms Turner said.

“Considering that there are thousands of commuters a day, the most successful transit modes operate best when there is the least possible distance between them,†she added.

An environmental assessment is the next step and timelines are constrained in order for the proposed project to be considered for capital funding in the upcoming Provincial budget.

In support of council’s preferred option, Richmond Hill Centre is an area designated by the Provincial Places to Grow — Growth Plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe — as an urban growth centre.

Metrolinx, the group charged with creating an integrated transit system for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Areas, recently recommended in their report, The Big Move, the building of a station at Richmond Hill Centre and making it a key intermodal passenger terminus that would include a 28-bay bus terminal, connection to Langstaff GO rail station, passenger pick-up/drop-off facility and pedestrian entrances.

Ms Bassios has her fingers crossed that the upcoming environmental assessment leads to a green light for the proposed project.

“We are really hopeful that everything goes according to plans. This would be a wonderful opportunity for our town and Richmond Hill residents and commuters,†Ms Bassios said.
 
from the National Post:

Vaughan councillors affirm support for subway extension

Posted: October 27, 2008, 10:16 PM by Barry Hertz
Vaughan, transit
By Natalie Alcoba, National Post


Vaughan city council affirmed its support of the Yonge Street subway extension yesterday, the second underground foray into York Region with six proposed stops north of Finch Avenue that culminate in Richmond Hill.


Councillor Alan Shefman, who sits on the Yonge Street Subway Advisory Task Force, said the extension has progressed at a remarkable pace, given how many years it has taken plans for its older, sister extension, along Spadina Avenue, to become a reality.


“As late as two years ago, there was no thought whatsoever that we would have the funds to do a subway extension [on Yonge]. We were looking at surface rapid transit with buses and so forth, so this has moved incredibly fast,†Mr. Shefman said yesterday, following a meeting in which council endorsed the preliminary plans, without any discussion.


The proposed 6.5-kilometre underground extension would run from Finch station to a proposed station at Richmond Hill Centre, located near Highway 7, with stops at Cummer and Drewry avenues, Steeles Avenue, Clark Avenue, Royal Orchard Boulevard and Longbridge and Langstaff roads.


There would also be “major intermodal bus terminals†at the Steeles and Richmond Hill stations. There are also plans to include a 1,900-car parking lot and passenger pickup and drop-off point north of Longbridge Road.


Vaughan Mayor Linda Jackson said the Yonge project has benefited from enthusiastic public input, and those consultations are set to conclude next month.


“You always want plans to move faster, but they are coming along,†Ms. Jackson said yesterday. “There certainly is a lot of interest in the community with respect with getting the subway moved forward.â€


The Spadina extension is a go for next year, and there are plans to start digging in more than one spot to speed that up even further, she said.


Last month the regional transportation planning body called Metrolinx unveiled a $50-billion plan to alleviate gridlock and improve public transit in greater Toronto with new subways, light-rail lines, bus ways, highway lanes and cycling paths.


The vision called for transit links to congested Pearson International Airport from four directions, extending the Yonge-Spadina subway line north into York Region, adding express GO Transit service along the busy Lakeshore corridor and the creation of rapid transit lines along Sheppard, Finch and Eglinton avenues, all within 15 years.


So far, the province has pledged $11.5-billion to make it happen, and another $6-billion is expected to come from Ottawa.


The Yonge subway extension fits into the provincial government’s Move Ontario strategy as a “priority project,†said Councillor Shefman, and he said he would be “very surprised†if the provincial funding does not come through. Construction is “likely†to start in early 2010, he said.


“Obviously the economic situation is going to have some impact,†Mr. Shefman said, but he hopes the government would see investing in a major infrastructure project such as a new subway as a catalyst for re-energizing the economy.
 
Foundations in the way present challenges but in no way require the building be torn down. I do agree the cost of this project will likely be in the $500M range due to severe complexities but it is possible to do without disrupting anything above ground.


Incidentally, Sheppard (in 50 years) will be up for the same type of treatment on the lower part of the station. I hope that the land on both sides has been set aside to allow this work to happen at a moderate cost without massive re-engineering of adjacent buildings.

The concourses for the future side Yonge line platforms at Sheppard have already been roughed-in as part of the Sheppard subway project. They're hiding behind the vents on the platform walls at the north end of the station.
 
And yet the city is projecting that the Spadina extension stations will cost twice as much! Heavens, the extremely anti-subway councillor who runs the TTC couldn't be deliberately inflating the cost, could he?
 
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It's hard to say how much the extension may overload the existing Yonge line...they're claiming that capacity improvements will more than double the capacity of the Yonge line (10% higher capacity subway cars, another ~15% due to a 7th car, and a final ~60% due to higher frequencies as headways drop from 141 to 90 seconds), but I find this hard to believe. Doubling capacity of the Yonge without additional billions in station renovations would result in insane overcrowding at practically every station, every staircase, every collector booth, every turnstile, and every entrance, and it would put huge pressure on every feeder bus route.
 
I'm not sure ... I personally think it'll be fine.

I don't think the amount of new riders will overwhelm the system once even part of the service increases are implemented on Yonge.

I've seen the stats many of times but - I don't think we'll see a huge swath of new riders here ... even on the Yonge extension. We'll see though.

And by new riders I mean riders that aren't currently using finch station in some way or form ... yes granted some that used to drive may now drive to Hi-way 7 and Yonge or possibly take other transit alternatives on Hi-way 7.
 
I wonder what kind of level of architecture we'll see for these new stations. Will it be on par with the Spadina line extension?
 
The capacity issue is basically a math question at this point...

Spadina Extension + 7th car + reduced headways=?

Half might be ambitious but it should be a big improvement.

They have hinted that the Yonge subway stations could get the same "starchitect" treatment but I guess it will depend how that goes.

There's an article about the last public meeting here...
http://www.yorkregion.com/article/85280
 
Here's a really good take on the capity issue.

In short it's a huge mess ...

The other future projects, DRL - go improvements. Will dramatically decrease ridership - but the timing on these is not known ... so all this money spent on increasing ridership on the Yonge ling may in the far far future prove pointless ...

anyway here it is:

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=1524
 

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