TheTigerMaster said:
Yeah well that's what happens when we're dealing with a group of people who show no willingness to understand the facts of the situation. Everyone just ends up yelling past each other.

Personally, I enjoy debating and even disagreeing with members who keep the discussion fact based. But I can't be bothered to deal with the ones that show no regard for the facts. It's just a waste of time. I for one am done with this.
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Well, I've dealt with group of people who showed no willingness to understand that the Scarborough Subway will attract 5 millions extra trips and that it will have subway ridership. Yet they choose to advocate to LRT and wishing for another flip flop.

You don't see me call them trolls because they disagree
 
Solid Snake said:
well we don't know that. Any attempt to upgrade what was already planned should increase the cost to build it. They might have to drop some stops, who knows.
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Would you be more happy with the SELRT if they followed the standard set by the ECLRT (22 kph, subway-like spacing, signal priority)? I'm in full agreement with you when you say that the now defunct Transit City (TTC designed) versiom of the line was horrible.
 
Solid Snake said:
Well, I've dealt with group of people who showed no willingness to understand that the Scarborough Subway will attract 5 millions extra trips and that it will have subway ridership. Yet they choose to advocate to LRT and wishing for another flip flop.

You don't see me call them trolls because they disagree
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Like I said before, I have no problem with people who disagree. This is a forum. We're supposed to disagree with each other :)

What I have a problem with is when certain users throw away all facts and logic to benefit their viewpoint. Things such as saying that Bloor-Yonge doesn't have any new office development and using that as a justification for Sheppard Subway. Or saying that Sheppard will suddenly be a successful route of its extended, when that is demonstrably false.
 
JayBeeGooner said:
Posting (bad) arguments about why Sheppard should be a subway in the YONGE SUBWAY EXTENSION THREAD.

I'll leave it there for you to ponder.
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I've noticed the last few days various arguments and discussions on transit being located in the wrong thread. First it was the Eglinton Crosstown discussing DRL and now this thread discussing Sheppard.

I enjoy following these discussions but maybe its time they are moved to the appropriate threads?
 
Solid Snake said:
Well, I've dealt with group of people who showed no willingness to understand that the Scarborough Subway will attract 5 millions extra trips and that it will have subway ridership. Yet they choose to advocate to LRT and wishing for another flip flop.
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Politics aside, I'm alright with the scarborough subway but there's something important that must be said regarding the "5 million extra trips".

According to Steve Munro:
A new demand estimate was run only for the subway option (and not the LRT), and the model assigned a lot of 905 commuters to the new Scarborough Subway for trips to downtown. Of course they should be on the Stouffville GO service, but demand models have been used before to inflate demand for new subways either with unreasonably rosy land use forecasts or by selective omission of competing services.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Like I said before, I have no problem with people who disagree. This is a forum. We're supposed to disagree with each other :)

What I have a problem with is when certain users throw away all facts and logic to benefit their viewpoint. Things such as saying that Bloor-Yonge doesn't have any new office development and using that as a justification for Sheppard Subway. Or saying that Sheppard will suddenly be a successful route of its extended, when that is demonstrably false.
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Fair enough,

I've never made those claims besides Downsview to Victoria Park and reevaluating beyond Victoria Park. I also made clear that this extension should be explore once everything else is done. That's when I go with logic and facts since the TTC were exploring extending the subway to Consumers or/and Victoria Park and BRT beyond that point.

Personally, I'd prefer the line to be completed but recognize that there are other priorities and if we ever go there, it should be done in phases where ridership justifies it. Who knows if the subway at STC stimulate growth in the northern parts of our city creating new commuting patterns. That's why reevaluating at a later time makes sense to me.

Wouldn't that billion dollar be better serve to ensure that the DRL is build from Eglinton to Dundas West right from the start? That's how I see it
 
Back to the Yonge North extension: I've been to a transit town hall at Yonge & Eg, Crosstown meetings, as well as some condo proposal meetings. One thing I hear a lot is that people complain that they can't get onto the Yonge line southbound in the morning until at least a couple of trains pass. The Yonge Extension will definitely have some opposition from people going south further down the line.

I'm lucky enough at the moment not to need to go south during rush hour. Also in my field of work hours are usually flexible, so I'm not too worried. I know that if you go later than 9 there isn't problem.

My question is, is it really as bad as they say? Or are they over-exaggerating since they oppose new condo development?
Even if you have to wait a few trains, the trains come every 2-3 min right? So theoretically it shouldn't be a huge wait?
Have you experienced that WisiaHD?

I figure that hopefully before it becomes a serious problem, the crosstown will be completed, making it easier to go to Eg West, then take the Spadina line south.
 
salsa said:
I agree that 400m is too close for a suburban area. I would be alright with 800m, however the subway will probably have stations 2km apart. Of course there could be stations at Faywood and Senlac, but they won't we well used as all. And some politicians want this subway built without these intermediate station in order to save money, saying that we can always build them at a later date (i.e. never, I'm still waiting for Willowdale station). Regardless, subway are good for moving lots of people over longer distances, but can be terrible at serving the neighbourhood itself.




I wouldn't consider the 85 to be frequent. On a weekday, headways range from 15 to 30 minutes, and the 98 Willowdale-Senlac bus it's 30 minutes all day. If that's what's going to happen west of Yonge when the subway gets extended, then these buses will be almost useless. Might as well walk forever than wait for a bus to come.




If they mess this up then that would be unfortunate. But Metrolinx is in charge now so hopefully they will get it right. Maybe they can also cut down on the number of stations.




I don't think it would be impossible to widen the road, but if it has to be underground then at least there's the tail track from the sheppard subway that can be used. It extends all way to Welbeck road, so not much more tunnelling would need to be done (only up to the bridge I would imagine, and the bridge would be widened).




Big move costs 50 billion as is. If we are going to upgrade every LRT to a subway, then families will be paying even more. Maybe if politicians would stop lying about LRTs, people would not feel so upset about them.




I see the merits. Just not sure it's good value for the money.




I'm ok with one transfer, but you want to create a second one by extending the subway. You say that ridership merits a subway up to Victoria Park, but after Vic Park ridership suddenly drops to BRT levels. Seriously? Prove it. I don't think that high ridership you talk about is so great that the LRT can't handle it, so I don't see the need for spending more money on extending the subway while making the transfer situation even more annoying. At least if Don Mills remains the terminus, you have one transfer with the three option of transferring to the DRL, the sheppard subway, or the sheppard lrt.




Yes I understood your point. Sheppard is alright compared to other cities, just not so great for Toronto standards. Unfortunately we can't build subways for cheap like in some other cities, so we have to have higher standards of what abysmal is. Until Toronto clears its backlog of other priorities, I don't agree with building the sheppard subway. But I'm not saying that you think sheppard should come before the DRL.

Overall, I see where you're coming from. Lets agree to disagree.
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Sure we can agree to disagree. I for one can't wait for a final conclusion to this saga which should come after both provincial and municipal election.

If it must be LRT, then a stop every 650-800m with priority signals like in Europe and a design simular to the Wynford stop
slide #35 (http://thecrosstown.ca/news-media/whats-new/station-design-update-meeting-east-open-house) where it looks like a pedestrian bridge which would provide a safer access to the station and reduce the risk of slowing down the trains who won't have to worry about people crossing the tracks. If they replicate that, then I'll be more supportive.

Otherwise, it should be BRT in the near future. The reason is that I have a feeling the province will build the DRL from Pape to Dundas West and leave Eglinton out. That billion on Sheppard would be more productive if we had a complete DRL right from the start.
 
ehlow said:
Back to the Yonge North extension: I've been to a transit town hall at Yonge & Eg, Crosstown meetings, as well as some condo proposal meetings. One thing I hear a lot is that people complain that they can't get onto the Yonge line southbound in the morning until at least a couple of trains pass. The Yonge Extension will definitely have some opposition from people going south further down the line.

I'm lucky enough at the moment not to need to go south during rush hour. Also in my field of work hours are usually flexible, so I'm not too worried. I know that if you go later than 9 there isn't problem.

My question is, is it really as bad as they say? Or are they over-exaggerating since they oppose new condo development?
Even if you have to wait a few trains, the trains come every 2-3 min right? So theoretically it shouldn't be a huge wait?
Have you experienced that WisiaHD?

I figure that hopefully before it becomes a serious problem, the crosstown will be completed, making it easier to go to Eg West, then take the Spadina line south.
Click to expand...

I work at Sheppard-Yonge as a property manager and having worked nights for a while, I use the subway in the morning to go south during rush hour.

The trains are usually almost full by Sheppard-Yonge do to the Sheppard line feeding it passengers. By Eglinton, the train is really overcrowded. South of there, is a nightmare. As I get off at St.Clair, I see frequently people unable to get on the trains. So yes, it's really that bad.
 
I have impression that the problem extends as far north as Sheppard and Yonge station. Each time I need to get on the southbound train around 7:30-8pm, I need to wait 2-3 trains before i can board. Well, I cannot claim it is always the case as I don't use this station regularly.
 
Solid Snake said:
Sure we can agree to disagree. I for one can't wait for a final conclusion to this saga which should come after both provincial and municipal election.

If it must be LRT, then a stop every 650-800m with priority signals like in Europe and a design simular to the Wynford stop
slide #35 (http://thecrosstown.ca/news-media/whats-new/station-design-update-meeting-east-open-house) where it looks like a pedestrian bridge which would provide a safer access to the station and reduce the risk of slowing down the trains who won't have to worry about people crossing the tracks. If they replicate that, then I'll be more supportive.

Otherwise, it should be BRT in the near future. The reason is that I have a feeling the province will build the DRL from Pape to Dundas West and leave Eglinton out. That billion on Sheppard would be more productive if we had a complete DRL right from the start.
Click to expand...

I resonded to your posts in the Sheppard thread. Gotta put an end to this thread mixing craziness :D
 
ehlow said:
Back to the Yonge North extension: I've been to a transit town hall at Yonge & Eg, Crosstown meetings, as well as some condo proposal meetings. One thing I hear a lot is that people complain that they can't get onto the Yonge line southbound in the morning until at least a couple of trains pass. The Yonge Extension will definitely have some opposition from people going south further down the line.

I'm lucky enough at the moment not to need to go south during rush hour. Also in my field of work hours are usually flexible, so I'm not too worried. I know that if you go later than 9 there isn't problem.

My question is, is it really as bad as they say? Or are they over-exaggerating since they oppose new condo development?
Even if you have to wait a few trains, the trains come every 2-3 min right? So theoretically it shouldn't be a huge wait?
Have you experienced that WisiaHD?

I figure that hopefully before it becomes a serious problem, the crosstown will be completed, making it easier to go to Eg West, then take the Spadina line south.
Click to expand...

I hope all these people will take the Spadina line starting in 2016.
 
Solid Snake said:
I work at Sheppard-Yonge as a property manager and having worked nights for a while, I use the subway in the morning to go south during rush hour.

The trains are usually almost full by Sheppard-Yonge do to the Sheppard line feeding it passengers. By Eglinton, the train is really overcrowded. South of there, is a nightmare. As I get off at St.Clair, I see frequently people unable to get on the trains. So yes, it's really that bad.
Click to expand...

It absolutely is that bad. This is why I want to see the TTC study a Don Mills Subway to Finch (extension of Relief Line). It really could help to free up a significant amount of space on Yonge by diverting away riders coming from the east. There's not much else I can think of that would help to relieve the Yonge crowding problems.
 
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