GenerationW
Senior Member
A condition of approving the Yonge EA was that Toronto would contribute nothing to capital costs. Toronto also set a precedent with Spadina by assuming all operating costs. So that kind of limits Toronto's leverage.
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
That's not going to cut it even with platform screen doors and extra trains - and full ATC is already in the pipeline. Let's not aim too low.
That's actually somewhat unfair in that the city does benefit from having stations at Cummer and Steeles. A pro rata by distance would be more appropriate. Having said that, the negotiation position should be always be no DRL, no YN - and if they say otherwise, bring heat to the North Toronto MPPs.
AoD
BMO
Senior Member
Actually the whole point of transit planning is to anticipate growth and plan transit to meet demands. Not a wait and see approach.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
BMO
Senior Member
some of the worst planned neighbourhoods for transit, good job!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
While heartily acknowledging that not everything we hope/anticipate comes to pass, it's still funny how people scoff, writ large, at the notion of planning.
From Dictionary.com, a plan is: a scheme or method of acting, doing, proceeding, making, etc., developed in advance:
IN ADVANCE. Was a time, we tried to this, now we just flounder and play catch-up and scoff at people/municipalities who try to do crazy things like intensify along transit corridors and nodes. And then we waste time and money where it's too little too late, managing to double down on mistakes of the past and make the future more difficult at the same time.
What Liberty Village shows is what happens when you do half a good plan; building a nice, desnse neighbourhood with no infrastructure. Based on this thread, it's something we're quite happy to see repeated along Yonge Street. Better to try to force something you hope might happen, where you want development to go, than to look at where it's actually going, and serve that, buttress it and nurture it, before it overtakes you.
Our priorities are, obviously, messed up. this week showed (once again) how unable politicians are to prioritize and develop coordinated, concrete plans they can stick to over time. It's one thing York Region has actually done well over the past decade, after 30 years of building crap. But now they are trying to PLAN something better, in advance (which is redundant, but apparently needs re-stating). For this, they get ripped by holier-than-thou-1-stop-subway Toronto and people here who think they know better than some of best-known, most experienced planners in the region and world. quelle joke.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
So TJ you're against the scarborough subway?
minilude
Active Member
shouldn't we focus on lawrence east station now?
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
I thought the LRT made more sense though I was with Tory on the "just build it already!" until the revised costs and ridership came in I'd love to see Scarborough intensify, I just think we can take some lessons from what hasn't happened there. And, that's enuff for this thread
You know what's funny. Lots of people grumble about "build it and they will come..." planning. But they forget how that movie ended.
Spoiler alert: he built it, and they came.
Palma
Senior Member
and i suppose the next inevitable thing is to join yonge to TYSSE along 7!
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
York Region has a BRT there, upgradeable to LRT. Unlike some municipalities, ahem, they're only asking for subways in 2 specific corridors and using other RT modes to link them.
(Cue north44 talking about the magical Subway to Wonderland)
44 North
Senior Member
A little too late for that. The EA for the York University extension to instead terminate at VCC never included the possibility for an E/W alignment from Jane along Hwy 7. The tracks are already laid, and the line's terminus is aligned beyond Hwy 7. And with YNSE, the 2013 EA amendment brings Line 1 well north of Yonge/Hwy 7 (by about 1.5km), so again no chance for an E/W alignment. If we're ever to 'close the loop', Major Mack will be the logical location.
Lol, that magical subway to Wonderland... the one Vaughan has been asking to have included in the Big Move, that York Region is continuing to include in their updated transportation master plan, and the one only a few months ago you had no idea about and CAPS LOCK/ denied until shown otherwise.
Where are there any LRTs planned? And "magical" is definitely one way I'd describe York Region's planning schemes and fields of dreams.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
I can ask for unicorns. It doesn't mean I'll be riding unicorns any time soon. If I got worried every time the City of Vaughan asked for something off-kilter, I'd never sleep.
I hate starting every sentence addressed to you with "as you know," BUUUT as you know, the BRT system is specifically and purposely engineered to be upgradable to LRT if/when demand warrants. So, in answer to your question: they are planned on Yonge and Highway 7. When Transit City was a going concern, they were also planning for extensions of the Jane and Don Mills lines to Highway 7.
And as I posted just above, I guess you're one of the people who forgets how Field of Dreams ended. But, to reiterate, he built it and they came. So, it's weird when people cite it as evidence of the contrary.
As for the TMP, I didn't know about the subway "extension" - and I thanked you, sincerely, for pointing it out at the time- but I didn't know about it because it's still not official in any significant context and it was even less so then. If you're going to keep lording it over me, I'll retract my thanks, remind you how fictional it is and remind you how little you knew about the far more significant plans for Langstaff Gateway before I gave you something else to nitpick. It's not particularly germane to THIS thread anyway, especially since you keep redefinining irony by using it as proof of York Region's LACK of commitment to transit-oriented development.
In the meanime, what it ACTUALLY shows is a potential, "eventual," northward extension. The maps show pretty dotted arrows on both Yonge and Spadina, that are clearly hypothetical, for the time being. Hardly a significant element of their planning regime and clearly not as "real" as the extension to Highway 7, which is cited a priority on what seems to be nearly every page of the TMP. Note the stars which show "Special Study Areas" because they are STUDYING - not REQUESTING - future extensions, and where it says any lines that are "only conceptual at this time." But you've already demonstrated that you don't differentiate between unbuilt actual plans and unbuilt conceptual plans.
(That you're so hot and bothered over a long-term planning exercise that envisions conceptual extensions 25 years from now shows how little you understand the profession of planning and the exercise they're undertaking.)
I hate starting every sentence addressed to you with "as you know," BUUUT as you know, the BRT system is specifically and purposely engineered to be upgradable to LRT if/when demand warrants. So, in answer to your question: they are planned on Yonge and Highway 7. When Transit City was a going concern, they were also planning for extensions of the Jane and Don Mills lines to Highway 7.
And as I posted just above, I guess you're one of the people who forgets how Field of Dreams ended. But, to reiterate, he built it and they came. So, it's weird when people cite it as evidence of the contrary.
As for the TMP, I didn't know about the subway "extension" - and I thanked you, sincerely, for pointing it out at the time- but I didn't know about it because it's still not official in any significant context and it was even less so then. If you're going to keep lording it over me, I'll retract my thanks, remind you how fictional it is and remind you how little you knew about the far more significant plans for Langstaff Gateway before I gave you something else to nitpick. It's not particularly germane to THIS thread anyway, especially since you keep redefinining irony by using it as proof of York Region's LACK of commitment to transit-oriented development.
In the meanime, what it ACTUALLY shows is a potential, "eventual," northward extension. The maps show pretty dotted arrows on both Yonge and Spadina, that are clearly hypothetical, for the time being. Hardly a significant element of their planning regime and clearly not as "real" as the extension to Highway 7, which is cited a priority on what seems to be nearly every page of the TMP. Note the stars which show "Special Study Areas" because they are STUDYING - not REQUESTING - future extensions, and where it says any lines that are "only conceptual at this time." But you've already demonstrated that you don't differentiate between unbuilt actual plans and unbuilt conceptual plans.
(That you're so hot and bothered over a long-term planning exercise that envisions conceptual extensions 25 years from now shows how little you understand the profession of planning and the exercise they're undertaking.)
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sixrings
Senior Member
I think we should put all our money into teleporter research. Then people can live where ever they want and we can sell the tech to other cities. Win win.