[Allandale25]

Tonight's presentation deck.

https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sites/default/files/voh-oct20-final.pdf

 

[Allandale25]

YNSE report on the agenda for tomorrow's York Region Committee of the Whole.

PDF: https://yorkpublishing.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=27626

And, in case the above link doesn't work because the agenda is updated, PDF in Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XtSPZ84qEQ-DAgxBAvMTC0OUWjv_Z7XO/view?usp=sharing

 

[Northern Light]

YNSE report on the agenda for tomorrow's York Region Committee of the Whole.

PDF: https://yorkpublishing.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=27626

And, in case the above link doesn't work because the agenda is updated, PDF in Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XtSPZ84qEQ-DAgxBAvMTC0OUWjv_Z7XO/view?usp=sharing

Interesting bits and bobs from the above:

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

One important omission/bit of context from the report: the Region's $1.12B is actually mostly coming from development charges (in case you were wondering how a tax generating $12M a year helps them pay that amount). The proposed levy is a smaller chunk of the funding but they're still calculating how that breaks down.

Also, it's not on the Metrolinx or TTC agenda so I doubt he'll see it but this should make Steve Munro and his crowd smile with delight and put some champagne on ice:

It will also take some wind out of the sails of the people who like to crow that suburbanites shouldn't be allowed to steal subway seats from tax-paying Toronto citizens. With York Region actually paying a share, that argument becomes moot.

 

[allengeorge]

Also, it's not on the Metrolinx or TTC agenda so I doubt he'll see it but this should make Steve Munro and his crowd smile with delight and put some champagne on ice:

It will also take some wind out of the sails of the people who like to crow that suburbanites shouldn't be allowed to steal subway seats from tax-paying Toronto citizens. With York Region actually paying a share, that argument becomes moot.

I mean, it’s said with a disparaging tone - but I think that’s a reasonable criticism, and I’m glad York Region has to pay its share of the operating expenses.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I mean, it’s said with a disparaging tone - but I think that’s a reasonable criticism, and I’m glad York Region has to pay its share of the operating expenses.

It's reasonable in that the only thing resembling a substantive argument has been "I'm a taxpayer and you're not!" but it's also always been clear that whether it's an ad hoc deal like this or a more regional solution, that funding should be done more fairly. As a YR taxpayer, I have zero problem with it - we want the subway, we should pay for it - I just also resent being treated as a second-class rider for daring to use TTC every now and then.

 

[allengeorge]

I just also resent being treated as a second-class rider for daring to use TTC every now and then.

This is a mischaracterization of the concerns over subway extensions into York Region.

Put bluntly, people just want to know that York Region is paying it’s fair share for TTC service operating deep into its territory. This is especially the case because the TTC (and the people of Toronto, who fully funded its operating expenses till recently) weren’t particularly interested in expanding into York Region - this was a decision handed down by the Provincial government.

Given that the people paying for operating the service didn’t want the expanded mandate, and were simply forced to do it - yeah, I can understand why questions around operating costs and fair share come up.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

This is a mischaracterization of the concerns over subway extensions into York Region.

Put bluntly, people just want to know that York Region is paying it’s fair share for TTC service operating deep into its territory. This is especially the case because the TTC (and the people of Toronto, who fully funded its operating expenses till recently) weren’t particularly interested in expanding into York Region - this was a decision handed down by the Provincial government.

With all due respect, it's not a mischaracterization. Whether it's here or social media or in real life, irrespective of subway extensions, I've heard many prominent Toronto "urbanists" talk about people from Thornhill and Richmond Hill as "regional riders" who should be taking GO instead of taking up seats on the TTC. Examples abound (for the sake of "bringing receipts" I'll name Jen Keesmaat and Adam Giambrone, for starters) but suffice it to say I am quite confident this attitude exists and has existed for a while. The operating costs issue with expansion no doubt takes it to another level but it would exist either way in regards to 905ers using the TTC, regardless of the fact that these people are going to jobs in Toronto and spending money at restaurants and other businesses in Toronto etc.

(And I'm not sure about your "until recently" because pre-Mike Harris, Ontario substantially subsidized TTC operations. Anyway, as I said, I think this should be regionally funded (again), but that doesn't change the fact I've heard 416 people straight-up tell 905 people that GO is their system and TTC isn't.)

 

[DKsan]

With all due respect, it's not a mischaracterization. Whether it's here or social media or in real life, irrespective of subway extensions, I've heard many prominent Toronto "urbanists" talk about people from Thornhill and Richmond Hill as "regional riders" who should be taking GO instead of taking up seats on the TTC. Examples abound (for the sake of "bringing receipts" I'll name Jen Keesmaat and Adam Giambrone, for starters) but suffice it to say I am quite confident this attitude exists and has existed for a while. The operating costs issue with expansion no doubt takes it to another level but it would exist either way in regards to 905ers using the TTC, regardless of the fact that these people are going to jobs in Toronto and spending money at restaurants and other businesses in Toronto etc.

When I worked in the TTC in 2017, this attitude was pervasive amongst some staff as well. I remember someone called on the edge of Toronto, having no idea how to go onwards to Brampton and the person on the phone was unsympathetic, and didn't even provide a BramTrans phone number.

 

[steviej1]

Do you guys ever think parts of York Region will be amalgamated into Toronto in the future like how Scarborough, Etobicoke, etc were all amalgamated into Toronto?

 

[afransen]

Doubtful. I could imagine a regional government being formed for the GTA, including Peel, Halton, and Durham as well.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Do you guys ever think parts of York Region will be amalgamated into Toronto in the future like how Scarborough, Etobicoke, etc were all amalgamated into Toronto?

Would amalgamating Mississauga into Toronto result in a Line 2 extension into Mississauga (or at least Sherway Gardens)?

 

[nfitz]

Would amalgamating Mississauga into Toronto result in a Line 2 extension into Mississauga (or at least Sherway Gardens)?

I doubt that Mississauga would ever be merged. But I also expect Line 2 will be extended into Mississauga eventually.

Sherway Gardens is in Toronto - so nothing has ever precluded an extension to there.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

One important omission/bit of context from the report: the Region's $1.12B is actually mostly coming from development charges (in case you were wondering how a tax generating $12M a year helps them pay that amount). The proposed levy is a smaller chunk of the funding but they're still calculating how that breaks down.

Also, it's not on the Metrolinx or TTC agenda so I doubt he'll see it but this should make Steve Munro and his crowd smile with delight and put some champagne on ice:
View attachment 362249
It will also take some wind out of the sails of the people who like to crow that suburbanites shouldn't be allowed to steal subway seats from tax-paying Toronto citizens. With York Region actually paying a share, that argument becomes moot.

I mean, it’s said with a disparaging tone - but I think that’s a reasonable criticism, and I’m glad York Region has to pay its share of the operating expenses.

It's reasonable in that the only thing resembling a substantive argument has been "I'm a taxpayer and you're not!" but it's also always been clear that whether it's an ad hoc deal like this or a more regional solution, that funding should be done more fairly. As a YR taxpayer, I have zero problem with it - we want the subway, we should pay for it - I just also resent being treated as a second-class rider for daring to use TTC every now and then.

This is a mischaracterization of the concerns over subway extensions into York Region.

Put bluntly, people just want to know that York Region is paying it’s fair share for TTC service operating deep into its territory. This is especially the case because the TTC (and the people of Toronto, who fully funded its operating expenses till recently) weren’t particularly interested in expanding into York Region - this was a decision handed down by the Provincial government.

Given that the people paying for operating the service didn’t want the expanded mandate, and were simply forced to do it - yeah, I can understand why questions around operating costs and fair share come up.

With all due respect, it's not a mischaracterization. Whether it's here or social media or in real life, irrespective of subway extensions, I've heard many prominent Toronto "urbanists" talk about people from Thornhill and Richmond Hill as "regional riders" who should be taking GO instead of taking up seats on the TTC. Examples abound (for the sake of "bringing receipts" I'll name Jen Keesmaat and Adam Giambrone, for starters) but suffice it to say I am quite confident this attitude exists and has existed for a while. The operating costs issue with expansion no doubt takes it to another level but it would exist either way in regards to 905ers using the TTC, regardless of the fact that these people are going to jobs in Toronto and spending money at restaurants and other businesses in Toronto etc.

(And I'm not sure about your "until recently" because pre-Mike Harris, Ontario substantially subsidized TTC operations. Anyway, as I said, I think this should be regionally funded (again), but that doesn't change the fact I've heard 416 people straight-up tell 905 people that GO is their system and TTC isn't.)

With all due respect, it's not a mischaracterization. Whether it's here or social media or in real life, irrespective of subway extensions, I've heard many prominent Toronto "urbanists" talk about people from Thornhill and Richmond Hill as "regional riders" who should be taking GO instead of taking up seats on the TTC. Examples abound (for the sake of "bringing receipts" I'll name Jen Keesmaat and Adam Giambrone, for starters) but suffice it to say I am quite confident this attitude exists and has existed for a while. The operating costs issue with expansion no doubt takes it to another level but it would exist either way in regards to 905ers using the TTC, regardless of the fact that these people are going to jobs in Toronto and spending money at restaurants and other businesses in Toronto etc.

(And I'm not sure about your "until recently" because pre-Mike Harris, Ontario substantially subsidized TTC operations. Anyway, as I said, I think this should be regionally funded (again), but that doesn't change the fact I've heard 416 people straight-up tell 905 people that GO is their system and TTC isn't.)

TJ is right that many, many Torontonians have this attitude. But it comes from years of feeling like the provincial governments are using transit to buy votes in the GTA, and especially in York.


On a positive note, GO is a much nicer system anyway.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

A new video from the Royal Orchard folks!
Weird they decided to lead with the impacts on fish and while they warn "this could happen in your community!" the truth is it probably won't, because we're not building that many subways.