[Ansem]

I think Keith lays it all out pretty simply. With all due respect, Ansem, you're living in the past.

It is precisely because there is a simplistic logic to what you are saying that there has so far been no subway to Steeles to date and it is precisely because of that argument that Metrolinx served notice to all the transit authorities they will be effectively funding, operating and owning ALL the news lines that get built.

If I were King of the TTC I probably wouldn't want to share with others but that's why Metrolinx exists; to make sure all the fiefdoms work TOGETHER to help people who take transit.

As Keith has shown, and as Metrolinx has said, the extension will NOT be paid for by Toronto taxpayers and yet Toronto taxpayers will reap both the parking and fare revenues as well as the economic benefits of having 905ers come work/play in Toronto.

Does that satisfy you at all or do you wish to persist?

I live in the past?
No in the present.

Amazing how you read what you want to read.
I just said that I wanted the subway to be a GTA equipment like Montreal Metro is. The GTA taxes in one big pot. If that's what Metrolinx plan to do in the near future then that's the best solution.

My only concern in this that we know that the Spadina line will be open 2015 but nothing has been said about maintenance costs. Same for RH. Who pays for that while they try to figure that out?

 

[kEiThZ]

My only concern in this that we know that the Spadina line will be open 2015 but nothing has been said about maintenance costs. Same for RH. Who pays for that while they try to figure that out?

That's been covered several times in this thread and the other one. York region will be pitching in for operating costs for the portion of the subway that's in York region. They will also be helping out with additional capital costs that are incurred. ie. the need for more subway trains. In fact, the TTC is banking on them paying for the next batch of Rocket trains.

In the longer term, as mentioned earlier, Metrolinx is undertaking studies and coming up with a funding plan for all transit in the region. Till then the current arrangments between York and Toronto are good enough.

 

[Ansem]

That's been covered several times in this thread and the other one. York region will be pitching in for operating costs for the portion of the subway that's in York region. They will also be helping out with additional capital costs that are incurred. ie. the need for more subway trains. In fact, the TTC is banking on them paying for the next batch of Rocket trains.

In the longer term, as mentioned earlier, Metrolinx is undertaking studies and coming up with a funding plan for all transit in the region. Till then the current arrangments between York and Toronto are good enough.

Right I forgot about spadina
I think it was you who showed me those arrangements.
Will it be the same for RH?

This can't happen without DRL though.

 

[kEiThZ]

Right I forgot about spadina
I think it was you who showed me those arrangements.
Will it be the same for RH?

Why would it not be the same for the Yonge/RH extension? Toronto might not even have to pitch in at all for the construction costs of the Yonge line. Metrolinx might fund the whole thing.

This can't happen without DRL though.

And the province is going to pay for that as well or at least pitch in quite a bit.

Personally, I am sick of people tying the Yonge extension to the DRL. The DRL is needed regardless of whether the Yonge extension gets built or not. Both are needed and both serve different populations.

 

[Ansem]

Personally, I am sick of people tying the Yonge extension to the DRL. The DRL is needed regardless of whether the Yonge extension gets built or not. Both are needed and both serve different populations.

Because Metrolinx need to know that DRl has to be built at the same time or before RH.

Doing the opposite would be...well you know the rest

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I live in the past?
No in the present.

Amazing how you read what you want to read.
I just said that I wanted the subway to be a GTA equipment like Montreal Metro is. The GTA taxes in one big pot. If that's what Metrolinx plan to do in the near future then that's the best solution.

My only concern in this that we know that the Spadina line will be open 2015 but nothing has been said about maintenance costs. Same for RH. Who pays for that while they try to figure that out?

Metrolinx IS working on a plan to put all the taxes in one pot. It remains to be seen how it will all break down (set for release in 2011) but it's reasonable to guess there will be road taxes of some kind that will go towards Metrolinx projects - such as the subway. It might be easier if you think of the extension as a Metrolinx — not a TTC or Toronto — project.

If it helps to have an analogy - the province paid for Viva's new BRT and they will own and operate that as well. Don't ask me precisely how the governance structure works, but that is the new transit regime in the GTA. Hence, my "living in the past" comment.

That the DRL needs to go in first is 100% a matter of opinion - and you're entitled to hold it - but it's not an objective fact. It wouldn't hurt but if you live in Toronto and want to see a DRL, you should blame your own elected officials for not pushing it. In the meantime, you may be happy to know that Metrolinx is looking at the RH extension, the DRL and several other projects and figuring out how to prioritize them. There should be a report by the end of the year but since they have virtually no money to fund anything else right now...it may be a moot point for the time being.

As Keith points out, plenty has been said on the maintenance costs. Why are we going in circles? I really think all your concerns have been addressed. There's a train coming, friend. You don't need no baggage, just get on board.

 

[kEiThZ]

Because Metrolinx need to know that DRL has to be built at the same time or before RH.

Doing the opposite would be...well you know the rest

That's disputable. And I say that as a 416er. The DRL needs to be built to relieve Yonge-Bloor. However, many of those riders (mostly coming from the east) will be there regardless of whether the extension to RHC happens or not. The rocket trains, ATO/ATC, etc. will help the situation in the short-term. But the DRL will have to be built sooner or later. Ideally, if the work for the extension is complete, we could operate for a few years without the DRL as long as sufficient rocket trains are ordered. That means it is not an absolute necessity to build the DRL first, as long as the planning for the DRL is occurring concurrently with the construction of the Yonge extension AND as long as there are sufficient Rocket trains.

I am all for a little flexibility when handling multiple projects. If the work for the extension is done and funding is there, let them get started. It's up to us Toronto residents to push Council to build the DRL. Remember its Miller and Giambrone who prioritized the YUS extensions over the DRL. Don't blame York Region for that. If you want someone to be mad at, direct your fire in the right (or should I say left?) direction.

 

[Rainforest]

^ IMO the problem is not so much the passengers from Yonge North overwhelming the subway, as it is the funds used for Yonge North extension and not DRL.

While you are right that Torontonians should blame themselves and not York Region for not pressing the DRL issue, it will become everybody's problem if the core of subway system chokes and can't handle the flow of passengers.

 

[allabootmatt]

Am I the only one who thinks 2011 is a shockingly *bad* time for Metrolinx to publish its funding strategy? I would hate to see something as sensible as road tolls--which is what it will have to include if they're serious--become politically radioactive due to an upcoming election.

 

[GenerationW]

I think most people don't realize that it's not just serving York Region residents trying to get to Toronto, it would also serve Toronto residents going to York Region.

The amount of Toronto citizens working above Steeles has skyrocketed as of late, but again, most people seem to conveniently overlook that trend.

Very true. I worked on Yonge north of Steeles for years, and I would have killed to have an extended subway back then.

 

[GenerationW]

I am all for a little flexibility when handling multiple projects. If the work for the extension is done and funding is there, let them get started. It's up to us Toronto residents to push Council to build the DRL. Remember its Miller and Giambrone who prioritized the YUS extensions over the DRL. Don't blame York Region for that. If you want someone to be mad at, direct your fire in the right (or should I say left?) direction.

For the record, Giambrone is not a proponent of the Yonge extension, and this project seems stuck in neutral now after appearing to be full steam ahead not that long ago. Be interesting to know what kind of lobbying is going on behind the scenes.

 

[nfitz]

He might not be a proponent; but neither was he a proponent of the Spadina extension.

I don't see any point any Toronto politician spending limited political capital lobbying for the Yonge Extension. It's likely going to happen whether Toronto pushes for it or not (as would expansions towards Mississauga if Mississauga had any interest in pushing it).

Toronto might as well spend their political capital on other projects that aren't of primary benefit to York Region.

 

[Dan416]

He might not be a proponent; but neither was he a proponent of the Spadina extension.

As I recall, neither was the TTC. Honestly, the TTC seems to have absolutely zero interest in subways right now. Even though funding has finally started flowing and now would be the ideal time to catch up with all the time we've lost over the last few decades of little to no subway expansion, even though the city has grown by leaps and bounds.

 

[nfitz]

Honestly, the TTC seems to have absolutely zero interest in subways right now.

Though the city, York, and Metrolinx all do.

 

[GTS]

I just saw CTV news and Michael Thompson, city councillor who used to be one of the TTC councillors, make a plea for money for the Downtown Relief Line. The reason that I am on this thread talking of it is that he argued that the Yonge extension to Richmond Hill will put a lot of stress on the Yonge Line. Hope the funding comes through for the RH extension and the downtown relief line.

CTV news report had a map with the alignment of the DRL it went from Pape in the east south then west to Union, continued west the heads north to Dundas West Station.

Hope all these transit plans become reality. Montreal is funding 3 lines and I hope Toronto can make a similar investment. This type of investment will make Toronto much more economically competitive.