jaycola
Active Member
It is described as "additional RT". Not subway extension.
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Doesn't say it's not subway. Subway is RT.
BMO
Senior Member
I find it funny how Sheppard is called "Sheppard RT" but all the other LRT lines are explicitly called "LRT". Politics gonna politic.
Transportfan
Senior Member
Only as a potential, not a firm plan.
nfitz
Superstar
Ditto for Mississauga Transitway - I think you are reading too much into this, unless you think they may dismantle it.
salsa
Senior Member
Looking at the map, while it appears that the Yonge subway extension has been shelved, Toronto would never feature it on their "plans" since it is not something Toronto wants as much as something being imposed upon them. Note that the HWY 7 Busway is also labled "additional RT" while the nature of this project is fully known. The province can't simply ignore transit in this corridor seeing as it is a priority in the planning of Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill, not to mention Toronto's own Yonge North planning study.
Torontonians are rather short sighted to not care about the Yonge extension just because some of it goes beyond our border. Why is it that some people don't see the benefit of removing thousands of buses a day off of Yonge St, improving the insane traffic at Yonge & Steeles, redeveloping all those ugly strip malls north of Finch, shortening several bus routes, and providing Toronto residents a faster commute to their jobs in York Region so that they don't have to move out of the city? This whole self-centred Toronto parochialism is not helping anyone, and it needs to stop.
Canadian Chocho
Active Member
^^ Indeed, boundaries are created and destroyed all the time (particularly municipal ones).
As much as some people may think as the 905 as some sort of wasteland inhabited by philistines and brutes, I'd argue it very much adds to the social capital of the city. Same goes for the inner suburbs too.
As much as some people may think as the 905 as some sort of wasteland inhabited by philistines and brutes, I'd argue it very much adds to the social capital of the city. Same goes for the inner suburbs too.
rbt
Senior Member
Well said. I still don't agree the Yonge extension beats out an equally beefy Richmond Hill line service of the same price (I would if they studied 5 minute frequencies on a straightened RH line and found it wanting), but it's clear that a trunk line of some type is useful through that area or nearby.
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pstogios
Senior Member
It's pretty obvious that when you read between the lines, anything labeled as "Additional RT" is NOT LRT or subway.. If it was, it would be labeled that way, like the Jane LRT.
Canadian Chocho
Active Member
Yet Steeles is very clearly labelled as BRT which falls into the category of not being either and LRT or Subway.
nfitz
Superstar
Not sure why you don't think they don't care. The decisions on how to do the Yonge extension are already made. The prerequisites have been defined, and this plan achieves the prerequisites. If the various other governments want this to go ahead, then they will - but that's pretty much out of Toronto's control. Presumably Toronto will simply pony up their small portion - but I don't see why any further consultation is necessary as part of the current process.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Without reading TOO much into it...the map is of existing and planned TTC projects. The subway (even to Steeles) is not hilighted as part of Line 1, but rather the same "additional RT" designation apparently assigned to the Transitway (which is GO/Metrolinx anyway) and those 2 spurs in Scarborough. Even if it doesn't really mean "they don't care" it's a peculiar way of graphically representing a subway with,as you note, defined/achieved prerequisites (and council approval and an EA) and not requiring further consultation. If it's one of the city's most shovel-ready transit projects in most respects, you wouldn't know it looking at the map.
The fact that it's not a "Toronto priorority" is besides the point since it's obviously a TTC subway and involves Toronto at both the capital and operating ends. Transit planning is always too political in these parts and I think it's naive to see the omission (sorry, the "it's there; the vague grey line at the top!) as anything other than a political rejection of the plan by Toronto's planning department. That's especially odd since they have a new Secondary Plan for the Finch-Steeles stretch, which is, I'm guessing, more than be said for pretty much every other unbuilt line on that map.
What I read in was Team Keesmaat deprioritizing it as much as they could though I agree that the approval of governments is more significant than whatever Toronto's attitude is. It would still be nice to have a sense that everyone's on the same page and "additional RT" suggests reason to be skeptical that's the case. That's more my concern than the specific project.
nfitz
Superstar
Still think people are over reading it.
Yonge will get built, if Toronto is interested in it or not. It's in Toronto's best interest to simply ignore it as much as possible, so as to lessen the possibility that anyone think or suggest that Toronto provide any funding to the project. Only 2 of the 6.5 km are in Toronto. Using the traditional ⅓/⅓/⅓ forumula, Toronto is only going to be on the hook for about 10% of the cost - building this project doesn't turn on Toronto.
Also Toronto also doesn't want to get stuck for the entire budget over-run this time.
There's no benefit to discussing or consulting on the project any further. It will drive itself.
Yonge will get built, if Toronto is interested in it or not. It's in Toronto's best interest to simply ignore it as much as possible, so as to lessen the possibility that anyone think or suggest that Toronto provide any funding to the project. Only 2 of the 6.5 km are in Toronto. Using the traditional ⅓/⅓/⅓ forumula, Toronto is only going to be on the hook for about 10% of the cost - building this project doesn't turn on Toronto.
Also Toronto also doesn't want to get stuck for the entire budget over-run this time.
There's no benefit to discussing or consulting on the project any further. It will drive itself.
minilude
Active Member
If Cummer station is removed (just extend the existing passenger walk way to Cummer) and build the Steeles station at north of Steeles, Toronto's capital share would drop even more. York Region should fund the city share alone. Toronto could use this saved cake to fund the DRL.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Mmm, but their intensification potential at Cummer would drop (even with a walkway). It costs you tax dollars and development charges (which, like, go to help pay for the subway!). you could skip Cummer as a short-term thing, just rough in, but I doubt it's worth the purported savings.
(Maybe someone else knows - is there already a development proposal for the Newtonbrook Plaza there? Man, that thing is ripe for major intensification when the time is right for them to pull the trigger.)
I agree, really, with everything you're saying about the practical realities.
I think no one should get crazy about what's ultimately a nice concept plan. Still, it's surely odd that the subway is given such a vague designation. Maybe it's an oversight, maybe it's just some graphic designer used the wrong colour, maybe something else. But it's poor optics for the city to - at best - be saying, "Well, that extension of our central subway line is going to happen, but we're not really involved." It should be coloured in all pretty, just like their other, far more hypothetical lines.