salsa
Senior Member
Tory, at a "fund the RL now, province and feds" press conference just now: "The Yonge line won't move an inch toward Richmond Hill until we have shovels in the ground on RL."
Paging @TJ O'Pootertoot. He's gonna be mad.
Tory, at a "fund the RL now, province and feds" press conference just now: "The Yonge line won't move an inch toward Richmond Hill until we have shovels in the ground on RL."
Woof!Paging @TJ O'Pootertoot. He's gonna be mad.
Another political football being kicked back and forth on Monday was the possible Richmond Hill subway extension, which would see the Yonge subway line expand north from Finch Avenue and up to Highway 7.
"The Yonge line can't go an inch closer to Richmond Hill until we have shovels in the ground digging out that much needed subway relief line," said Tory on Monday, arguing that the system is stretched too thin to accommodate more riders.
Del Duca, whose government put $55 million towards planning the Richmond Hill extension in June, wouldn't definitively say that the downtown relief line should come first.
"Both projects have merit. We're going to keep working with our municipal partners to make sure that at some point both get built," he said.
So, lemme add that up: Province is in charge over Toronto according to Tory and the province isn't necessarily agreeing DRL is ahead of Yonge North. Interesting.
Sure the province can build the subway to Richmond Hill, but the TTC doesn't have to operate it past Steeles
Montreal made the same threat to Laval and the province was quick to end the dispute by paying Montreal what it was owed by Laval
Woof back atcha!
Del Duca said a statement full of nothing. His riding in in york. He could have agreed with Tory, but we can't even get him to finish GO Service.Oooh, Tory said so, eh? I'm so mad!
And he knows so much about transit. REAL PEOPLE tell me they think the Yonge subway will save them 2 hours on their commute. I'm sure he'll be impressed
But did you read the whole CBC article?Rather weird you'd quote an article that has multiple paragraphs about the Yonge line in it in this thread and selectively quote them. First, Tory says Toronto's transit plans are entirely in the province's hands and then Del Duca says, despite Toronto's position, he's not so sure the Yonge line can't go ahead of the DRL.
Lemme help you:
So, lemme add that up: Province is in charge over Toronto according to Tory and the province isn't necessarily agreeing DRL is ahead of Yonge North. Interesting.
Woof back atcha!
Touche. I guess this is the state of affairs in this region now.Oooh, Tory said so, eh? I'm so mad!
And he knows so much about transit. REAL PEOPLE tell me they think the Yonge subway will save them 2 hours on their commute. I'm sure he'll be impressed
If only we could get building the DRL.
There is a human cost to this cynicism.While I understand and do not dismiss the legitimate capacity concerns, I really don't think Toronto has earned the right to have a say on any of this stuff anymore and am not remotely impressed or intimidated by the mayor's grandstanding on his transit high horse.
Its much more accurate to say Neoliberals rather than Liberals. I'm just sayinThey're all full of nothing. And it's hard to imagine anything big happening in the little time the Liberals have left.
OTOH, strange things happen in campaigns.
But he didn't back Tory up and Salsa posted Tory's statement without Del Duca's response. If you're saying it all amounts to a shrug and the status quo, I'm in no position to disagree at all.
Why would I be "mad" about Tory saying Yonge won't go first when Del Duca offered something that amounts to "maybe."? Same as it ever was.
Toronto and Tory really have poisoned the well, and so has Il Duce.-I would like to see both projects proceed at the same time. Yonge should go first because it's closer to shovel ready and all the planning is in place and it won't overwhelm the system on opening day. I wouldn't approve it without the DRL following close behind, but I also wouldn't wait for the DRL, especially given Toronto's record of dithering.
I also have no problem with the notion YR taxpayers should contribute to operating costs, whether it's through fare integration or a levy or whatever.
That said, Toronto City Council has made so many legitimately embarrassing transit decisions in the past 6-7 years and wasted so many billions and so many years that I've built up enough cynicism that I don't really care what priorities are in their politicians' imagination.
While I understand and do not dismiss the legitimate capacity concerns, I really don't think Toronto has earned the right to have a say on any of this stuff anymore and am not remotely impressed or intimidated by the mayor's grandstanding on his transit high horse. He's spent all his transit political capital and lost me these last few months entirely - especially with his prevarications over the past few weeks - and his opinion on what "makes sense" in terms of the region's infrastructure means nothing to me. He has no clue. Call me when the ELRT opens.
So, if the planning is going to be "political" either way, I have no real problem with the province "overruling" the dolts at Toronto City Council - who are so low as to vote against doing a business case or comparative study for a line they're determined to build for entirely political reasons - and benefiting the politicians in York Region who have devised and stuck to a comprehensive plan and implemented the planning to facilitate growth.
Toronto and Tory really have poisoned the well, and so has Il Duce.
I see an option few seem to agree with:
Let the 'subway' touters have their subway extension north, but at the same time, an entirely new approach to the DRL, and Il Duce has his chance to 'make the trains run on time' (albeit Mussolini never said that, but whatever):
DRL is deep tunnel, full gauge track and loading, part of RER with run through either end onto existing GO tracks. Model will be Crossrail, track branches onto different legs of RER each end and the tunnel runs under Queen with connections to both the Georgetown Corridor and Lakeshore West. In the north, a number of connections to present RER corridors would makes sense, including the old O&Q (CP) alignment if electrified by VIA for HFR, which would continue to use the connection down Don Valley to Union. Many options could/would be possible on connections. Estimated cost? Twice that for DRL. Payback? More than twice, easily, ridership and fare-box return and saved costs for Union not having to be enlarged, and transfers to TTC minimized.
Financed by? The Infrastructure Bank. Both Ontario and Toronto especially are tapped. Metrolinx would run it with co-operation of VIA if the O&Q is used, or as trade-off for HFR using Metrolinx track into and through Union.
I just don't see Toronto being capable of feeding and caring for itself. If you dig a tunnel, dig a real one, and then let Toronto provide the TTC connections between the wider spaced stations that RER will require.