JSF-1 said:
Honestly though at what point does a subway just become to long though? We can't operate express service and does Union really have the capacity to be a terminus point for 2 lines assuming you split Line 1? There is definitely a point of diminishing returns were the Subway actually becomes its own worst enemy and you would be better off just building a higher order of transit (a GO Line).
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_10_(Beijing_Subway)

The line is 57.1 km long. The entire TTC Subway is 76.9km. Line 1 is 38.8km long. I'd say we have a lot longer to go.
An extension to Wonderland would be about 6km. An extension to RHC would be 7km. So, 38.8+6+7=51.8km Still 5.3km short of the longest line.

In that time frame, Smart track and 15 minute all day GO wll be running. And most likely DRL and possibly DRL long will be built. I'd say that the area is doing everything short of truncating the line at Union.
 
Richard White said:
What... you don't want a subway to Oakville, Oshawa or Barrie?
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Extending Line 2, or Line 4 to Oshawa along Highway 2 would make some sense. It hits the major downtown areas, it hits the denser areas, and it would be well used along the route. Although, most likely wouldn't sit on it all the way to the end.
 
JSF-1 said:
Honestly though at what point does a subway just become to long though? We can't operate express service and does Union really have the capacity to be a terminus point for 2 lines assuming you split Line 1? There is definitely a point of diminishing returns were the Subway actually becomes its own worst enemy and you would be better off just building a higher order of transit (a GO Line).
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If they were to split the lines, There would likely be a second Union station built (probably in the York Concourse area) to facilitate the splitting. Of course, the connections would still be there, but they'd be for maintenance only. It's actually not a bad idea when you think about it because it spreads out GO passengers at Union Station more evenly across the platforms by having half of them go to Bay and the other half York.
It also gets rid of the godawful noise when taking that curve.
 
JSF-1 said:
Honestly though at what point does a subway just become to long though? We can't operate express service and does Union really have the capacity to be a terminus point for 2 lines assuming you split Line 1? There is definitely a point of diminishing returns were the Subway actually becomes its own worst enemy and you would be better off just building a higher order of transit (a GO Line).
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The Fords have convinced people that subways are the 'best' form of transit.

If they go ahead and upload subway construction to the province, this could be a nightmare for years - outlying GTA suburbs will all be demanding a subway, and Ford will continue to promise it to them to maintain support.

It's like the Simpson's Monorail episode on a provincial scale.
 
Jeez its almost as if we had a solution for this problem.
go-alrt-s1465-f597-i38.jpg

Imagine where we would be! Maybe GO would look like this today!
JR_East_E231_series_EMU_521.JPG

 

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Im not sure about the top picture but the bottom one most definitely could if operated right. For perspective the bottom picture is of Tokyo's Yamanote Line (A commuter rail line) which moves over 1 Million passengers per day. It operates about one train every 2.5 Minutes during peak periods and once every 4 minutes off peak. The trains themselves run in 11 car sets and can carry 1,406 passengers (548 seated).
 
syn said:
The Fords have convinced people that subways are the 'best' form of transit.

If they go ahead and upload subway construction to the province, this could be a nightmare for years - outlying GTA suburbs will all be demanding a subway, and Ford will continue to promise it to them to maintain support.

It's like the Simpson's Monorail episode on a provincial scale.
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I can see this ending in disaster. Unless Ford does away with the entire EA process no subways will be built during the next 4 years. Not only will they not be built BUT I doubt you could rip up the Waterloo LRT and replace it with a Subway as there is no demand for one.

Just because your mantra is "SUBWAYS! SUBWAYS! SUBWAYS!" does not mean you will be able to build them whenever you please. Subways are expensive, they construction for them is worse than the Crosstown LRT and they require alot of demand to be profitable. You cannot build endless subways wherever you feel like it just to win votes. When cities realize how much it will cost them and how much money the province just cost them it won't go over well.

When Ontario elected Ford. they elected a used car salesman. Ford will lie through his teeth to sell something no matter how bad things are. He will tell you everyone is getting a subway without telling you they cannot pay for it and you will be stuck with the operating costs. He is a flim-flam artist and the people of Ontario just gave him a blank cheque.

When it comes to subways what Doug Ford fails to remember is that Ontario is not Toronto and what worked in Toronto will quickly work against him outside of the city.
 
Ontario is not Toronto, but support in the GTA is critical if you want to win/maintain power. About half the province lives here.
 
micheal_can said:
Extending Line 2, or Line 4 to Oshawa along Highway 2 would make some sense. It hits the major downtown areas, it hits the denser areas, and it would be well used along the route. Although, most likely wouldn't sit on it all the way to the end.
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I see Ford's influence has started to infect yet another!
 
There is no reality in which extending the subway along Highway 2 makes any kind of sense.

The one stop extension to Scarborough Town Centre is likely going to cost around $5 billion - how much would it cost to extend it to Oshawa?! $15 billion? $20 billion? All for a line that'll be slower than GO and won't have anywhere near the usage to justify it.

While at City Hall the Fords held transit planning back by decades with their identity politics - now he's spreading it across the province.

Will Ottawa and London be demanding subways too, or will they have to be 'second class citizens'?
 
micheal_can said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_10_(Beijing_Subway)

The line is 57.1 km long. The entire TTC Subway is 76.9km. Line 1 is 38.8km long. I'd say we have a lot longer to go.
An extension to Wonderland would be about 6km. An extension to RHC would be 7km. So, 38.8+6+7=51.8km Still 5.3km short of the longest line.

In that time frame, Smart track and 15 minute all day GO wll be running. And most likely DRL and possibly DRL long will be built. I'd say that the area is doing everything short of truncating the line at Union.
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As someone who lived there and took that line regularly, it is a circle line that runs though Beijing's inner suburbs and a couple of business areas, including part of the main one. It services a city of (at least) 21 million people that essentially has no commuter rail in the way that is understood in Europe, North America, and Japan.

There is no rationale, anywhere outside of China, for building heavy underground rail to distant suburbs. In fact, it is insane from a transit planning/expenditure perspective. Heavy underground rail is NOT commuter rail. Areas like Pickering are served by GO/RER type rail around the world, for good reason.

I react the same way when I hear of subways planned for north of Steeles and to Sherway Gardens. Just say no. And I wonder where the hubris comes from when nowhere else in the world builds underground heavy rail with low ridership to to low density residential neighbourhoodsa and cities. The fact that this keeps repeating itself, year after year, decade after decade, and government after government tells me that there is a fundamental flaw in the governance surrounding transit in this province and city. It needs to stop.
 
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