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fiendishlibrarian

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Plan calls for light rail network

Mar 15, 2007 12:35 PM
John Spears
CITY HALL BUREAU
A sweeping plan to build a 60 to 80-kilometre light rapid transit network across Toronto, costing billions of dollars, will be unveiled tomorrow by the Toronto Transit Commission.

The system, probably consisting of light rail vehicles running on dedicated rights of way, was a key plank in Mayor David Miller's election platform.

While the bare bones of the plan have been in the works for some time, TTC chairman Adam Giambrone said in an interview today that "there are going to be some surprises."

"The goal is to inspire people," Giambrone said.

Miller's platform talked of an ambitious network of transit lines, including:

A dedicated transit corridor on Finch Ave., in part utilizing the hydro right of way, to connect north Scarborough and north Etobicoke to the subway; A west waterfront line linking Etobicoke to Union Station; Connecting the Sheppard subway line to Scarborough Town Centre; Extending the Scarborough Rapid Transit (SRT) line to northeastern Scarborough. Since the SRT is due to wear out by about 2011 in any case, it's the subject of a separate planning process.

Another important rapid transit route that will likely be covered in the TTC report tomorrow is the Don Mills corridor, Giambrone said. Planning work is already under way on Don Mills.

Environmental assessment work has also been done on several of the other proposed lines.

The cost of the new system will be huge.

Giambrone said the all-in costs of building light rapid transit lines is about $30 million a kilometre. That would put the price tag for an 80-kilometre system at $2.4 billion.

Giambrone shied away from saying that tomorrow's report will be an implementation plan with firm schedules and costs.

But he said the city expects to move ahead with the help of funding from the gas tax, and a hoped-for $2 billion national transit strategy, of which Toronto would get a substantial slice.

© Copyright Toronto Star
 
Nice

Why not abandon the VCC extension and spend it here instead. With the costs, this is certaintly fundable and affordable. A little more expensive though then the SmartRIDE LRT for what you are getting, but I like it.
 
Smartride LRT lived up to its name quite well - it was a smart plan.

Maybe the city thinks that this is the way to go. The Don Mills and Waterfront West EAs are underway, so they can start soon.

I really am not sure about the idea of Sheppard from Don Mills to STC all as light rail.

One compromise I can see is to build Sheppard has to Vic Park first as a subway to make that more useful (plus better serve the employment areas around there), then run some LRT out from there - that way a new station can be built to at least make an easy LRT-Subway connection (won't be easily done at Don Mills) and maybe even run LRT later on Vic Park. LRT trains along Sheppard can go both into STC and also further east towards Malvern.
 
^ What about having the LRT run from Sheppard/Yonge to STC along Sheppard, using the existing tunnel and then surfacing past Don Mills and continuing with no transfers. With longer trains, it might make sense?

I imagine the tracks would have to be redone in the Sheppard subway, as well as possibly some work on the stations...
 
Also an option, but we will likely have one light rail vehicle for all routes - a low floor. The vehicles on Queen will be the same on the Finch ROW. I can not see the existing Sheppard line working with low-floor, curb-side entry LRTs, though it is not entirely impossible.
 
I posted something similar on Steve Munro's blog. While I've ridden on countless LRT systems around the world, and many of them provide excellent service, I want specific figures on travel time reduction before I can support this plan. Will they be using the higher capacity vehicles as an excuse to cut service? For $2.4 billion, we could have a full east and west DRL. Will this be more beneficial? Isn't the whole point of these streetcars supposed to be proximity to the streets they serve? The Finch hydro corridor was deemed too far from Finch for a subway, and yet it's okay for streetcars?

The RTES deemed extending the RT north to be one of the least useful rapid transit extensions in the city, and yet it is the only one being built. Is this the whole reason the subway to Scarborough Centre was shot down? It could have been built for a small fraction of the cost of this streetcar plan. In fact, the marginal cost of a subway over the RT refurbishment would likely have been easily covered by the cost of the proposed RT extension. The subway would also have provided the same total travel time reduction from Malvern to Downtown as the RT extension, considering the elimination of the Kennedy transfer, and it would have benefitted the rest of Scarborough north and east of STC, too.

The new streetcar on St. Clair, supposedly the model for these new routes, has generated time savings that are less than 15%. Compare that to close to 50% time savings during peak periods from subway construction. With such negligible travel time savings, is this LRT project going to actually divert people from their current routes to the subway, let alone from their cars?
 
How will it go over the reservoir near G Ross Lord Park at Finch and Dufferin?
Also, if it does follow the Hydro corridor, it really wouldn't go directly in to North Etobicoke it would curve down to the airport.
I guess they will answer all this tomorrow.
 
Maybe I'm just pessimistic, and anyone's free to try to rip this to shreds, but best case scenario: this plan doesn't cost more than $3 billion, travel times are reduced to what express/rocket bus routes could do for 1/100th the cost (or possibly increased due to reduced frequency), and feeder lines overcrowd the subways even more. Wonderful!

For the same cost or cheaper, we can beef up GO and get people in the outer suburbs downtown in less than half the time that bus + LRT + subway combinations possibly can.
 
and feeder lines overcrowd the subways even more. Wonderful!
Click to expand...

who says though that these people will all be heading downtown? Having a LRT line to backbone a system in say Etobicoke, could provide a local network for local trips. Its not like downtown job growth is spinning out of control, we are only seeing modest growth. I am 'optimistic' myself that it could open up areas of the city that have been traditional 'dogs' in the sense of public transit mobility. It will also be 'high profile' if marketed correctly, and if the LRT is more of a rapid transit line, as oppose to the current streetcar operations, that could have a more mental impact. At $30 MM a km, it seems like they are not just laying down streetcar rails.
 
^ Yes, but there are two separate questions at play here. One is helping commuters get from god-knows-where to Union Station. Another is allowing people to bop about their neighborhoods as part of their day-to-day lives without their cars.

This probably won't do loads for question a, you're right. But in terms of building the 'avenues' into something more liveable, I think it's a great idea.
 
I was watching CFTO news at 6 PM this evening, regarding the TTC's confirmation of their LRT plan tomorrow, and it was stated that the entire plan will encompass a projected time frame of about 15 years. I find this kind of surprising, considering it's light rail we're talking about, but I'm assuming this is due to the LRT lines being built consecutively as opposed to all at once.

Hi, by the way :)
 
LRT Network Proposition

^^Welcome to the forum, I myself am a newbie member but a long time reader.
And also am I allowed to mention this website in other forums? Ex: Good place for discussion is...
thx
 
Re: LRT Network Proposition

I'm still frustrated at the lack of regional transit leadership and planning.

Where is the new Greater Toronto Transit Authority in all of this?

In the last week we have approved billions for yet another subway line to the middle of nowhere, literally this time around.

3 new BRT projects in the 905, with the promise of a study for Durham, but how about Halton and how are all these projects connected to each other?

Now the TTC is releasing yet another plan that has no funding strategy. So much for planning for the future.

Real leadership needs to take place here, and Miller is obviously not up for the job, and the province is useless. Who will save the GTA?

Louroz
 
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