[El Chico905]

By ROB GRANATSTEIN, CITY HALL BUREAU (Toronto Sun)

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Toronto's subway may soon rocket along the rails all night long.

TTC commissioners asked staff yesterday to investigate running the subway 24 hours a day, rather than stopping at 1:30 a.m. and restarting at 6 a.m.

TTC staff will look to see if they can do a test of 24-hour service, likely on the Yonge line.

"It's not at all easy," said TTC chief general manager Gary Webster. "But we support it."

The problem is the bulk of the TTC's track and tunnel maintenance is done overnight, when trains don't run.

Philip Webb, who has studied the 24-hour subway issue, said maintenance could be done by periodically closing a section of the subway line for a weekend, giving crews 60 straight hours to do a job, rather than three hours a night.

All-night subways will work almost effortlessly when the TTC's automated signalling system is installed, but it won't be completed on the Yonge-University-Spadina line until 2016. That system would allow trains to run both north and south on one track, leaving the other side quiet for maintenance.

WON'T BREAK BANK

All-night trains are possible on the Sheppard line now -- it has the new signalling system. But the demand would be a fraction of what is found on the Yonge line.

Webb believes the idea won't break the bank, either.

"Running the subway all night is cheaper than it looks," said Webb, a research associate at the Centre for Urban and Community Studies at the U of T.

A report on if and when the TTC could try the red-eye Red Rocket is expected back early next year.

 

[afransen TO]

Why does it take ten years to install a signalling system?

 

[rbtaylor]

Why does it take ten years to install a signalling system?

Nearly 20 actually. They've been at it for 10 years already.

The main reason is lack of funding or the ability to close the line for a few months for a clean switch-over.

Running two systems in parallel in production with installation going in small steps makes it expensive since a ton of additional testing is required. In total, along with related Russell Hill Signal and Transit Control improvements, the project is over $1B invested to date.

 

[afransen TO]

Yikes. Seems like the subway was built with lack of foresight. If it had been built in such a way to make installing a new signalling system possible without having to shut down entire lines or taking decades, it would have been worth just about any additional cost.

Then again, fantasies about computers in the 60s consisted of having computers the size of rooms in every house. If they had only known that wristwatches these days can have more computational power than 60s supercomputers, I wonder what would have been done differently.

 

[Suicidal Gingerbread Man]

Great idea. It makes much more sense to close down sections of the subway when needed rather than every night. 24-hour subway service will really help my professional alcholism.

 

[cacruden]

Of course it would be easier to close sections of the subway for long periods of time -- if the subway was extensive enough that there was a subway detour route around affected areas (thinking of downtown London now) :rollin

 

[cdl42]

Exactly. Signalling systems are notoriously fussy and complicated. The combination replacing track circuits (to detect where the train is), switches, signals, computer systems, yard tracks, trainstops (if the new system uses them), dispatching, speed control and more is a huge job that has to be done not once, but twice (in order to allow reverse operation) all while still having an operating network.

They aren't just taking the 1940s system and replacing it with modern parts, they're installing a whole new system. I guess an analogy would be completely tearing down your house and rebuilding it while you still have to live in it.

Once it's done it should allow for greater frequencies on the line and reverse operation. Both these things are determined by signal placement and spacing... that means the current signals will have to be removed, some calculations done, and more new signals installed in new locations.

Last year it was big news when AM peak service on the YUS was affected because trains weren't able to leave Wilson Yard... that was part of this very signalling upgrade project and something that the TTC surely wants to avoid happening again. We're actually pretty lucky in Toronto; in many other cities problems of this sort happen frequently (often several times a day in London).

 

[Skymasterone]

I haven't used the TTC in the past ten years, but I think a 24 hour subway system is LONG overdue.

 

[unimaginative2]

What about 24-hour service on, say, Fridays and Saturdays? Couldn't the TTC accommodate that without long shutdowns over the weekend?

Another possibility would be installing bi-directional signalling along with the new system so that certain sections could be operated as single track overnight with reduced (say, 15- or 20-minute) frequency.

 

[Mike in TO]

The least they could do is roll back the 9am start on Sundays to 6am like the rest of the week.... 9am is ridiculous.

Or start by closing the subway a couple hours later on the weekends - the current system that closes prior to last call only encourages people to drink and drive rather than take the vomit comet.

 

[Canuck 36]

Speaking of which, is it time to put the Vomit Comet on the Death Watch?

I'm not much of a clubber and rarely stay downtown late, but I've ridden it and seen a puking or two.

 

[spmarshall]

That is one transit experience I have not tried yet (and not sure if I want to). I have got on one of the last subways northbound and was surprised by how busy it was.

 

[taal2910]

reply

The subway is often quite busy even on the last train - 24 hour subway access is a must

 

[unimaginative2]

Re: reply

I've been on the last subway southbound (from Finch) dozens of times, and it's also surprisingly busy.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

A significant percentage of the people on the Vomit Comet haven't been drinking/clubbing - and crowds also take it south before the subways start running.

Proper 24 hour bus service would also be nice - my route is claimed to be 24 hours but it stops running completely for about 80 minutes from 4:45 to 6:00-ish.