dowlingm
Senior Member
Because if Scarborough Subway isn't killed, the notion of a Sheppard Subway to the zoo won't die either.
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coffey1
Active Member
They cant even build an LRT patch line to the ZOO. We'll certainly never see a subway come even close. But I do believe Sheppard will be extended as a subway to McCowan shortly after the SSE is extended & DRL is on underway.
WislaHD
Superstar
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Rainforest
Senior Member
Scarborough Subway will not be killed.
The "notion" of a Sheppard Subway extention may remain alive, but the actual extension will not happen in the foreseeable future.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Don't hold your breath for that. DRL construction, and even funding, is a multi-decade project. It is very unlikely that the funding will come in one piece.
On top of that, Sheppard extension will compete with Yonge North extension, and Yonge North will probably win, due to higher ridership forecasts as well as greater vote-attracting potential.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
For comparison, New York's Second Avenue Subway (13.7 km) had plans started in the late 1910's. Ground breaking happened in 2007, with completion of first phase by December, 2016. They have phases two, three, and four, but unfunded. First phase should exceed $17 billion USD.
From link.
Of course, Scarborough is so much like Manhattan.
From link.
Of course, Scarborough is so much like Manhattan.
nfitz
Superstar
That link says the groundbreaking was October 27, 1972.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
There was a "stop work" order in 1974, due to lack of funding. Sounds familiar... go, stop, go, stop. They just might complete the job in New York City, this time... maybe.
nfitz
Superstar
Complete? They might get 3 Phase 1 stations built east of Central Park. I'm not so sure about most of the line though!
coffey1
Active Member
Agree with the DRL & the multi decade ridiculousness . But I fully believe Sheppard West & East will be a package vote buying process.
Those 3 stations are the most important ones on that line though, since they maximize relief of the Lexington Ave line (currently the only line on the Upper East Side). Also, Phases 1 and 2 will be extensions of existing routes (I believe the Q is being diverted up the new 2nd Ave Subway). It's not until Phase 3 that the new T line will run exclusively along 2nd Ave. I agree that anything beyond Phase II is somewhat unlikely, but I think Phase II will happen.
Cobra
Senior Member
This is what I wrote on the DRL situation in another thread:
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Call me optimistic but the biggest obstacle to the DRL right now is the incomplete data (real cost, route, maintenance etc...).
Once the full study on the DRL is completed and goes back to city hall, I can totally see councillors ganging up on Tory and force the DRL past Smarttrack. At the end of the day and it's safe to assume that a majority of councillor would prefer the DRL over Smarttrack at a similar price.
The province isn't thrilled about it and the Feds just wants to spend on good infrastructure based on data. Trudeau said in his new year interview that it must be the provinces and cities picking the projects to be funded. So the Federal part of it is:"give us a project and we'll pay our share of it".
With the Province not really high on duplicating Go RER for $8 billion for smarttrack, while they had made the pledge for the DRL during the last provincial election, all that's needed now is the DRL data to come out. Let's not forget Metrolinx did the preliminary work stating the best route must go all the way to Sheppard via Don Mills.
I expect a majority of councillors along with the Province and media get behind it once the city report comes out supporting Metrolinx data. Don't forget public opinion with this!
Wouldn't be the first time council killed a project that the mayor championed...right?
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I too believe that DRL and Sheppard will pass as some sort of package deal... Just like Vaughan subway was forced upon the city as condition to get the extension to York University. So yes, the Liberals could pull one of those again. sigh...Politics. Make no mistake about it, the Province has all the leverage here. The city cannot bypass the province to get to the Feds infrastructure funds so this scenario is totally plausible and I'd be surprised if the Ontario Liberals were not already working on this as we speak.
Besides, when will we ever have 2 level of governments dedicated to spend that much in infrastructure again? Seems like the stars are aligned for this to happen
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coffey1
Active Member
Yes. I agree with all you have said.
The Sheppard LRT wasn't delayed for out of spite as some think. The Province has a plan for Sheppard East & its may no longer be LRT. If they would just convert the damn subway to LRT we could loop from Finch West back along Sheppard to Morningside around to Eglinton & Kennedy one day... But I digress. We can only be a one trick pony with Political planners & this is the better of the 2 plans.
WislaHD
Superstar
I don't buy that. Once Finch West and the Eglinton Crosstown opens and people see what an LRT is really like, there will not be so much opposition to the SELRT anymore.
If politicians want to use Sheppard Subway to vote buy, they have lost their opportunity to do so. Unless it is fasttracked to 2018, but between SmartTrack, the Relief Line, and other regional projects that seems unlikely.
The next vote-buying attempt by politicians in the transit department will come in the form of a Yonge North Extension.
If politicians want to use Sheppard Subway to vote buy, they have lost their opportunity to do so. Unless it is fasttracked to 2018, but between SmartTrack, the Relief Line, and other regional projects that seems unlikely.
The next vote-buying attempt by politicians in the transit department will come in the form of a Yonge North Extension.
Adjei
Senior Member
If anybody wants to buy votes, I don't see what any extension of the Sheppard subway brings. First of all it's only affecting Toronto residents and more specifically people in Scarborough. Not everyone in Toronto cares too much for it. Politicians are divided on it. The Yonge North subway is something which is more worthwhile to pursue from a vote buying perspective. It affects Toronto residents, Vaughan, Markham, and also Richmond Hill. Not to talk less of the whole York Region. There is a greater support for it in York Region and the project is their number one transit priority. The Sheppard subway extension is not even the top priority in Toronto and apart from a few cries from Scarborough, no one cares too much for it.