[BMO]

Been eyeing this one condo that is in an amazing location, the unit itself is very nicely laid out, and the entire building is well kept. The unit itself is about 657 sqft. The price on the unit is good around $350K about 100m from a subway station. The building only 10 storeys and has about 6 units per floor, so it's not a humongous building.

The one sticking point for me is that the maintenance costs are $639 which includes parking but doesn't include hydro. The building itself is about 15 years old and doesn't have much in the way of amenities apart from a concierge, party room, exercise room, and rooftop patio. The unit also has central A/C.

I'm used to seeing maintenance costs closer to around $430-$500 at other newer buildings which obviously means they'll only go up over time. I'm just not sure if this is a reasonable amount to pay for maintenance or if I would be getting into a less-than-desirable situation with this. Considering I may want to sell it further down the road (10-15 yrs) I'm worried that the maintenance fees may end up being a major downside to selling this unit.

 

[Auraz]

Too high. Should be low 400s. Concierge is very expensive for a small building like that. You're paying about $160/month for this service.

 

[BMO]

Too high. Should be low 400s. Concierge is very expensive for a small building like that. You're paying about $160/month for this service.

Thanks RZ12 as always.

 

[pmilo]

For comparison purposes BMO, I live dt in the Merchandise lofts with a 1 bedroom + den (approx 750 sq ft) and parking, not to mention the building has excellent amenities. My maintenance fees are about $500 including parking. Hydro is separate as well. For comparison reasons, I would say the unit you are eyeing seems over priced in its fees.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

Maintenance fees are a function of age of the building and required repairs down the road, size of the units, number of units to share the load, amenities, utilities and other inclusions (e.g. cable). The only way to make comparisons is to work it out per square foot with a building of comparable age, amenities, utility inclusions, number of units etc.

What you're saying is, your fees are approx. $1/sf which strikes me as 10-20 cents above the average for downtown Toronto building of a certain age. This may be because of the relatively few number of units in your building.

BTW: Does it include heat?

When you see lower fees at newer buildings, divide them by the square footage. Figure in what's included. Check who set those fees. If it was the developer, then you can bet they will jump far and fast in the first five years.

 

[BMO]

Maintenance fees are a function of age of the building and required repairs down the road, size of the units, number of units to share the load, amenities, utilities and other inclusions (e.g. cable). The only way to make comparisons is to work it out per square foot with a building of comparable age, amenities, utility inclusions, number of units etc.

What you're saying is, your fees are approx. $1/sf which strikes me as 10-20 cents above the average for downtown Toronto building of a certain age. This may be because of the relatively few number of units in your building.

BTW: Does it include heat?

When you see lower fees at newer buildings, divide them by the square footage. Figure in what's included. Check who set those fees. If it was the developer, then you can bet they will jump far and fast in the first five years.

The fees include:

• Water
• Heat (pumped/gas)
• CAC
• Building Insurance
• Parking
• Common elements (small gym, party room, rooftop patio *no pool*)
• Concierge

The building has Central Air, includes an exclusive locker. It's also ~15 yrs old but does not look old at all, in fact I mistook it for a new condo, it even looks better maintained than many of the buildings I've seen that have recently been completed.

There's ten floors with ~6 units on each

 

[BMO]

For comparison purposes BMO, I live dt in the Merchandise lofts with a 1 bedroom + den (approx 750 sq ft) and parking, not to mention the building has excellent amenities. My maintenance fees are about $500 including parking. Hydro is separate as well. For comparison reasons, I would say the unit you are eyeing seems over priced in its fees.

Thanks pmilo, I'm trying to get a gauge because the building is 15 yrs old but looks immaculate and much better than many of the newly built condos I've seen. I'm interested in seeing the status certificate to get a better gauge but I'm feeling like, maybe, paying a bit more if the status certificate looks good, might be worth it in terms of avoiding sudden jumps down the road.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

Thanks pmilo, I'm trying to get a gauge because the building is 15 yrs old but looks immaculate and much better than many of the newly built condos I've seen. I'm interested in seeing the status certificate to get a better gauge but I'm feeling like, maybe, paying a bit more if the status certificate looks good, might be worth it in terms of avoiding sudden jumps down the road.

The problem is the number of units, I think

24/7 concierge will typically cost -- I assume they're contractors -- $160,000-$180,000/year give or take. You're probably paying even more than RZ12 suggests if they're 24/7 and if they're from a decent company. Personally, I think having them is fantastic but they're certainly a luxury.

If the building 15 years old, it is likely far from having the typical 25 year aches -- garage and roof repair, boiler and fire panel replacements, etc. See if the status certificate includes a Reserve Fund Study which is up-to-date, like from the past 12 months or so.

Pools are expensive to heat and maintain. If the gym is decent, you won't have to go elsewhere.

It's hard to say what your hydro will be but I can't say enough about LED lights! It's those damn fees and charges Toronto Hydro hits you with that the killers. That said, a solid building is cheaper to heat than a house because you are surrounded by other heated units.

If the building looks better than the others, that's because it probably is. The fees went up because the other owners care about maintaining the place, keeping it clean, heading off problems. The fact that they shell out for concierges is very telling. These are people in it for the long haul, not just passing through. This is an important consideration.

Also, location, location, location applies to condos as well.

Finally, you will live there. If the place feels like home, and suits your needs, then go for it.

I don't know you, how old you are, what your lifestyle is or anything else. This comment is strictly from my perspective.

 

[TheKingEast]

Do you mind sharing which condo?

 

[BMO]

The problem is the number of units, I think

24/7 concierge will typically cost -- I assume they're contractors -- $160,000-$180,000/year give or take. You're probably paying even more than RZ12 suggests if they're 24/7 and if they're from a decent company. Personally, I think having them is fantastic but they're certainly a luxury.

If the building 15 years old, it is likely far from having the typical 25 year aches -- garage and roof repair, boiler and fire panel replacements, etc. See if the status certificate includes a Reserve Fund Study which is up-to-date, like from the past 12 months or so.

Pools are expensive to heat and maintain. If the gym is decent, you won't have to go elsewhere.

It's hard to say what your hydro will be but I can't say enough about LED lights! It's those damn fees and charges Toronto Hydro hits you with that the killers. That said, a solid building is cheaper to heat than a house because you are surrounded by other heated units.

If the building looks better than the others, that's because it probably is. The fees went up because the other owners care about maintaining the place, keeping it clean, heading off problems. The fact that they shell out for concierges is very telling. These are people in it for the long haul, not just passing through. This is an important consideration.

Also, location, location, location applies to condos as well.

Finally, you will live there. If the place feels like home, and suits your needs, then go for it.

I don't know you, how old you are, what your lifestyle is or anything else. This comment is strictly from my perspective.

Thanks for the insightful comment.

I'm a young professional under 25, male, been working full-time for over a year and make a comfortable living with no debt. Need a parking space for a part time job that pays very well.

Overall, your typical under 25 with the exception I probably have more money saved and can afford a condo like this compared to a lot of people my age.

As a suburban kid who always had to commute 1hr or more each way for work and play I heavily emphasized cutting that and this unit is easy walking distance to work and right on the streetcar and subway for play (or if I switch jobs).

 

[BMO]

Do you mind sharing which condo?

Sure, it's 1 Deer Park Cres near Yonge & St. Clair.

 

[TheKingEast]

Sure, it's 1 Deer Park Cres near Yonge & St. Clair.

Seems like a nice building in a really nice area. All brick construction is a price. It IS 15 years old so I'm not surrpised by the high maintenance fee. It is high, though and I wonder if the price reflects the high fee. Also, is it in line with the rest of the condos in the area? Lets put it this way, I have a 2 bedroom 2 bath close to 1000sqft parking and locker, area isn't as nice as this one but still solid and downtown location...maintenance fee is $550. 5 year old building.