"There's a lot more to owning a home than the monthly hydro bills. Maintenance includes everything from fixing the roof every few decades to buying a lawnmower."

What happens when a condo tower needs a new roof? or perhaps new balconies need to be installed? Who eats the cost? Every condo owner does. I know a couple in a highrise who were slapped with a 2000$ year end charge for a new roof, ect...
As for a lawnmower, I've have yet to purchase one and its going for 25 years now. If the old thing breaks, it costs no more than 150$.
 
What happens when a condo tower needs a new roof?
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Depends on the board.

Any condo board worth their salt will have enough funds to cover emergencies, upgrades, repairs, etc. collected over a number of years sitting in a bank account.

But yes, special assessments are sometimes issued. Heck, small towns sometimes use that trick when they do a major repair or upgrade.

The final cost over the building lifetime ends up being about the same unless the guy managing the finances gets a really high return.

MikeToronto conveniently forgot about 80 of the costs of home ownership for his comparison monthly hydro, water/sewer, etc. bills. That's a silly thing to do just from a budget preparation perspective, let alone using the value in a comparison (to anything, including other house-owners budgets).


The maintenance levels of the houses around yours will impact your homes value just as building neglect will imact the condos value. A bad neighbourhood is a bad neighbourhood, vertical or otherwise.


As for a lawnmower, I've have yet to purchase one and its going for 25 years now. If the old thing breaks, it costs no more than 150$.
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$150 for what? Lawnmower capital? Time is by far the biggest expense that a home-owner has. Good chance you spend about 1 hour per week in lawn care activities (watering, cutting, raking, etc) during 7 to 8 months of the year.

That works out to about $600 per year in time invested ($20 per hour) in lawn related activities.

What is your post income time worth? If you took a 36 hour contract doing something else and paid a 3rd party to take care of your lawn would you come out ahead?

Your time has a value larger than $0/hour.
 
Not everyone calculates the value of their "post income time" in financial terms. For many, having a garden, planting things and seeing them grow, cutting roses and lilac for indoors, inviting friends over for lunch in the garden - as opposed to a common party room in a condo - is a valuable asset far beyond the reach of a time-and-motion-study view of the world.
 
... and then, of course, there's all the fruit bushes you can plant, and all the jam you can have fun making ...
 
I can entertain equally well in the garden that my monthly fees paid someone else to plant and maintain, with guests seated on furniture my monthly fees paid someone else go to the store, deliver, assemble and clean, while I cook away on the bbq I don't need to spend my time schlepping to buy gas for.

there's all the fruit bushes
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Oh, my.
 
Not everyone calculates the value of their "post income time" in financial terms. For many, having a garden, planting things and seeing them grow, cutting roses and lilac for indoors, inviting friends over for lunch in the garden - as opposed to a common party room in a condo - is a valuable asset far beyond the reach of a time-and-motion-study view of the world.
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Of course. If you enjoy gardening then you won't exactly count it as work.

But any task that you don't enjoy doing should be considered work. It's not necessary that you do it. I used to barter with a neighbour that they would cut my grass once every other week and I would shovel snow out of their driveway in the winter.

I actually enjoyed shoveling show. They like cutting grass. I have allergies that made cutting grass a miserable experience. They disliked getting up early to shovel snow before heading to work.


Time you spend doing things you don't like doing has a value to someone else that can be sold, possibly doing something that you do enjoy.

If you enjoy gardening (landscaping) and are good at landscaping then why are you building a shed for the house which you aren't enjoying and is eating up a number of weekends instead of a landscaping contract or two?


Time spent on home maintenance that you don't like doing should be considered work and added to your total expenses and total revenue. It doesn't magically become free just because you did it yourself -- it does break even. Now see if you can do better than break even OR shifting more of your time to the things you do enjoy (golfing instead of cutting lawn).
 
Regardless of whether or not you enjoy building a shed, you're saving money by doing it yourself rather than paying someone else to do it, if you have enough down time to fit it in. The result of thrift such as this gives some people pleasure. And by shovelling snow all winter for your neighbours you don't need to pay for membership at a fitness centre, so you "save money" ... and stay fit. I agree about the benefits of bartering however.
 
you're saving money by doing it yourself rather than paying someone else to do it, if you have enough down time to fit it in.
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I guess this is where we fundamentally disagree. Saving money, in this context, doesn't necessarily leave more in your bank account for the same time investment.

Amature jobs almost always take much longer than the pros for the same quality, so even at a lower billing rate for your speciality you can often come out ahead OR reduce the time involved and spend it doing something you do like.


Saving $500 by working 20 hours doing drywalling if nice.

Making $700 by spending $500 hiring a pro to do the drywalling (~7 hours for them) and working 20 hours doing something else is better.
 
"Good chance you spend about 1 hour per week in lawn care activities (watering, cutting, raking, etc) during 7 to 8 months of the year."

I think it was 2003 or 2004 that we cut our grass only 3 or 4 times all year - it was so hot and dry that the grass quickly died, leaving it yellow and soft like hay. We rake once, maybe twice all year.

How much time does a condo-dweller spend waiting for or riding in an elevator each year?
 
Don't be fooled by grass. Grass is resilient. You may think it is dead, but it is actually ... just resting.

Grass survives all winter at sub zero temperatures and it can play dead for six weeks without water in the summer too. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, and nobody expects grass to return after six weeks, but turn your back on it and it returns.

I'm solving my grass cutting problem by letting ground cover take over the grassy knoll at the front of the house. A similar thing is happening in the back garden.

No muss, no fuss, no grass.
 
Who decorated those rooms? George and Weezie Jefferson?
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:rollin


And let's remember that detached single family dwellings get quite the nice deal when it comes to municipal taxes.
 
Do you guys think this is a good buy for investment purposes? You think I could squeeze out $1700/$1800 rent for a 2 bedroom here in a couple of years?
 
No. With so many cheaper rentals around the area, and a massive over supply of 1 bedroom investment owned (rentals) condos, I see rents decreasing. Maybe $1500/month tops. But at this blah corner, closer to $1300 more likely.
 
JayBee said:
Do you guys think this is a good buy for investment purposes? You think I could squeeze out $1700/$1800 rent for a 2 bedroom here in a couple of years?
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Two bedroom apartments in the 1970s era clunker managed by Realstar at the corner of Jarvis and Bloor are renting for about $1,600.

Vacancy rates in Toronto are also on the decline (2% Oct-2008 vs 3.2% Oct-2007), typically when the housing market slows the rental market picks up.
 
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