Admiral Beez
Superstar
That reminds me of my Gran's place on the Isle of Wight.
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- Thread starter rp07
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Bikes Are Freedom: Inspiration from the Experts
Includes a city named Toronto.
Includes a city named Toronto.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Many thanks for that! I just got off the phone to Plymouth, UK, talking to my older bro, we were discussing cycling, and he's been to Holland and Denmark...you all will love this, (and he's a cyclist too) "As a driver, you have to be very careful though, as they have right of way in almost all instances". Yeah!
But just watching your linked vid, and @ 1:27, footage of New York...you saved me from digging on this...pause the vid, and take a close look: There are no bollards, and yet...the cars are parked not only clear of the cycle lane side of the buffer, they're six inches clear of their own side! Consistently so! Note how the vehicles are all parked on an invisible line. In all fairness, only 25% of New Yorkers drive, there may be a social imperative at play.
New York City drivers are hardly known for their driving manners (albeit I love New Yorkers and NYC), so how can they do it and Toronto drivers can't?
Again, the 'green carpet' makes a huge psychological difference too. Also study the body english of the cyclists. Well balanced, stable, directional. I leave it at that save to say I'm in envy.
Edit to Add:
Here's the YouTube link so you can view it HD full screen:
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
If more and more people start moving from cars to bikes, should we consider a tax on cyclists to help pay for the infrastructure? I know this will immediately spark comments that cars do not pay their fair share via their taxes, or that bikes should be free because pedestrians do not pay for sidewalks, or that through reducing congestion and pollution plus improving the feel and life of a city bikes should be encouraged and therefore pay nothing (beyond municipal taxes we all pay) toward their required infrastructure, etc, etc. So, is the consensus then that bike lane creation and maintenance be funded purely from general city revenue and automobiles, with zero financial contribution by the bike lane users?
steveintoronto
Superstar
False presumption. We all pay taxes. How about pay for parks?
Edit: Are you playing Devil's Advocate Beez? Btw: Your comment "look like's my Gran's place in the Isle of Wight" holds for thousands of places I've seen and cycled in the UK. It looks exactly like a spot I know in Somerset near Taunton, where I spent considerable time. And Devon, and....and...
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UserNameToronto
Active Member
Municipal roads in the City of Toronto are already funded from "general city revenue" - that is, property tax. We all contribute to them whether we drive or not. Of course sidewalks and bike lanes should be funded in the same manner.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The sidewalks were originally installed because the streets in the Town of York, and later the City of Toronto, were unpaved. After any rain, the streets became muddy, hence "Muddy York". The sidewalks was higher than the streets so that people could walk with stepping in mud and horse manure.
The roads were paved because bicycles were getting stuck in the mud. Maybe the motorists should thank the bicyclists for getting the streets paved.
This map from 1908 shows which streets were unpaved or paved. Click on it for the enlarged map.
The roads were paved because bicycles were getting stuck in the mud. Maybe the motorists should thank the bicyclists for getting the streets paved.
This map from 1908 shows which streets were unpaved or paved. Click on it for the enlarged map.
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the lemur
Senior Member
I passed a film shoot the other day on Beverley near Baldwin. I guess the setting was the 19th or early 20th century, because the crew had built a wooden sidewalk and spread dirt in the curb lane to simulate the streetscape of the period.
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We all pay for sidewalks and roads through our municipal taxes regardless of whether we walk, take transit, cycle or drive. This crap about people not paying their fair share is just that, crap.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Anne of Green Gables is shooting in town right now.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
These replies made me chuckle, as you've all essentially met my post's prediction, despite my best efforts to include these POVs above.
My thinking is that if we have fewer and fewer cars, how do we replace the car-specific tax revenue? That's all.
My thinking is that if we have fewer and fewer cars, how do we replace the car-specific tax revenue? That's all.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
We don't. We count the savings.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Further to the Admiral's query:
Or more locally:
Raise the Hammer:
Many studies available that repeat the findings of these two articles. Cars and car-mentality are costly, in many ways...
http://www.smh.com.au/national/bike-riders-save-economy-21-on-each-commute-20130730-2qxdg.htmlThe federal government wants to increase the number of people who make short trips by foot or bicycle after a report card on the performance of Australia's cities found rapid changes in the labour market would pose big challenges to transport infrastructure.
The economy benefits by more than $21 every time a person cycles 20 minutes to work and back and $8.50 each time a person walks 20 minutes to and from work, according to a policy statement released by Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Tuesday.
Cyclist ride into Sydney in the morning rush, using the bike lane in King Street. Photo: Peter Rae
Mr Albanese said the construction of walking and riding paths was relatively cheap compared with other modes of transport. A bicycle path costs only about $1.5 million a kilometre to plan and build.
The government has agreed that, where practical, all future urban road projects must include a safe, separated cycle way.
"We need to get more people choosing alternatives to the car": Anthony Albanese. Photo: Nic Walker
"For shorter trips we need to get more people choosing alternatives to the car," Mr Albanese said in a speech. "People will walk or cycle if it's safe and convenient to do so."
The economic benefits of riding and walking to work include better health, less congestion, reduced infrastructure costs, reduced greenhouse gas emissions, better air quality, noise reduction and savings in parking costs.
The government also released the State of Australian Cities 2013 report, which said changing workforce patterns ''would pose major challenges'' for transport infrastructure planning. [...]
Or more locally:
Raise the Hammer:
https://raisethehammer.org/article/2124/high_quality_cycling_infrastructure_saves_money
http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/art...re-expensive-to-travel-by-car-than-by-bicycleWATCH: Six times more expensive to travel by car than by bicycle
(Photo: Lasse Strandberg)
Published: 12/05/2015
It is six times more expensive for society – and for you individually - if you travel by car instead of cycling. This has been shown in a Lund University study of Copenhagen, a city of cyclists. It is the first time a price has been put on car use as compared to cycling.
Video of Six times more expensive to travel by car than by bicycle: study
Watch: Bikes cheaper alternative to cars
In the comparative study, Stefan Gössling from Lund University and Andy S. Choi from the University of Queensland have investigated a cost-benefit analysis that the Copenhagen Municipality uses to determine whether new cycling infrastructure should be built.
It considers how much cars cost society and how they compare to bicycles in terms of air pollution, climate change, travel route, noise, road wear, health and congestion in Copenhagen.
The study concluded that cars have a greater negative impact on the economy than bicycles:
If the costs to society and the costs to private individuals are added together, the impact of the car is EUR 0.50 per kilometre and the impact of the bicycle is EUR 0.08 per kilometre.
The study by Stefan Gössling and his colleague also shows that if we only look at costs/benefits for society, one kilometre by car costs EUR 0.15, whereas society earns EUR 0.16 on every kilometre cycled.
“The cost-benefit analysis in Copenhagen shows that investments in cycling infrastructure and bike-friendly policies are economically sustainable and give high returns”, says Stefan Gössling.
Cost-benefit analysis is a method used to calculate the benefits to society of infrastructure investments.
Publication: ‘Transport transitions in Copenhagen: Comparing the cost of cars and bicycles’
Contact:
Professor Stefan Gössling
Department of Service Management and Service Studies, Lund University
+46 704 922634
stefan.gossling@ism.lu.se
Many studies available that repeat the findings of these two articles. Cars and car-mentality are costly, in many ways...
UserNameToronto
Active Member
I'm not sure there is any car-specific revenue for the City. Perhaps parking tickets and/or street parking permits?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
It's a good question. Is this still in place?
"In 2015 the City of Toronto received approximately $152.2 million. In total, the City's 2015-2024 Capital Budget and Plan reflects $1.644 billion in funding to be received through the GTF."
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=24eb7873580a3410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/weblog/2015/11/24-province_s.shtml