[steveintoronto]

Napoleon: Thanks for your observations, you've pretty much nailed it. At best, it's a compromise, and some compromises have been accomplished far better already in the city. Sherbourne comes to mind. Far from perfect, but *much more predictable* for the most part. And a lot of that is due to clearer sightlines.

Bikes and cars just don't quite know what to do with right turns. Seemed ripe for some serious issues.

This conflict arises time and again in the city. It shows on earlier cycle lanes where the cycle lane becomes sharrows to cross a vehicular right turn lane, but with no protocol signed....often being a "Yield" sign. In the case of the HTA, if yielding isn't clearly posted, it's the first vehicle to reach the intersecting lanes that has right of way, all other considerations being satisfied (signalling, etc). If they reach it at the same time, the vehicle on the right has right of way. Unfortunately, most motorists and cyclists haven't a clue on that, and the city has marked the turning lanes in an impossible manner to meet the terms of the HTA. Lis nails it with his post a few back: Traffic Lights. But alas, the City of Toronto insists on doing their grand experiment on the dirt cheap, under half a million bucks...and it shows. How freakin' cheap is reality for these people?

And most troubling of all: Most of the cyclists interviewed have no idea of the danger they're in. Most are just oblivious to it. Any seasoned cyclist's sixth-sense should be in high alert mode cycling the Bloor lanes. It's like playing a video game...when you don't want to.

I'm uncomfortable with this design and will stick to Harbord when possible.

The only reason I access it (and I live on Bloor at Dundas) is to see if they've improved some of the glaring problems. If I want to be safer, I avoid it, and use Harbord or Davenport. Takes me out of my way, but I get tired of fighting all the time, which was exactly what the lanes on Bloor were supposed to allay.

Very poorly thought out and instituted.

 

[salsa]

Just checking out the new Brantford GO schedule, the thought had occurred to me to cycle the Cambridge to Paris to Brantford leg of the Cambridge to Hamilton rail trail (done it many times, might do the entire distance, season is waning though)

Actually, I think it's one of the best times of the year for cycling. I save some of my longest rides for late September/October.

Plus the weather is not as hot and humid.

 

[LNahid2000]

Funny, I did the full Bloor bike lanes for the first time yesterday and biked right past the reporter. I have to say, while I love the idea of bike lanes on bloor, I didn't feel very safe in sections of it. While riding the full length of it, there were 4 cars stopped in it. I had one cyclist stop suddenly in a narrower bit without signaling.

Yep, I felt safer on Bloor pre-bike lanes than I do now. Before I had room to take the lane when necessary or pass on the left. Now I have to pretty much be ready to stop at each intersection because it's likely a car is going to right hook me.

 

[steveintoronto]

Actually, I think it's one of the best times of the year for cycling. I save some of my longest rides for late September/October.
Plus the weather is not as hot and humid.

I admit to being a camel. Muscles work best when hot. I loved it in Southern California, especially the desert, albeit that is dry heat. In the event, I scuttled the leg from Branford to Hamilton, as it clouded over late afternoon, threatened to rain, so took the GO #15 from Brantford. It took forever, over an hour and a half to Aldershot. 403 jammed solid and the loop into McMaster is very problematic. Only a few on the almost full bus got off at Mac. Bus jammed and many passengers were standing from Mac to Aldershot. Perhaps off-peak, the #15 makes sense looping at Mac, I don't know what the loading is like, but during peak, it is so successful that a separate run needed for Mac alone, and peak #15 starting in Brantford go direct to Aldershot.

Autumn has its charms, I must admit, but six months of winter following is like a massive drug withdrawal for me. Endorphins are such an incredible high.

Btw, how did that ride from (Uxbridge?) into TO go that you described months back? Since discussing the Peterborough to Uxbridge run, I did the Cannington to Uxbridge run, very pretty, more of the same really as the Pete to Ux run, but stretch south to Blackwater mostly unimproved trackbed gravel. Crushed Limestone in Cannington of the highest order, then rough south to Blackwater, but doable with larger section road tires, albeit with caution. I was still hungry for more when I got to Ux, met bus there, but wondered how I could live with myself calling it quits so soon. Cycled all the way back into west end Toronto via Goodwood, White's Road, Petticoat Creek Park, Rouge Hill, along the Bluffs, and stringing together a green path up Bellamy, west from Eglinton Station along trail, along St Clair through Pine Hills cemetery, St Clair Ravine Park to Massey Creek Park to Taylor Creek Park and down the Don and across Lakeshore. There's a few iffy on-road links, but it's a relatively safe way in.

The Bolton GO bus connection really good. I've been doing the Caledon Trailway quite often, it's superb but medium short, can easily be done between rush-hours. GO bus to north of Bolton, (Columbia Way) ride up to just south of Black Horse via Mt Hope road, attain the trail, ride west to the end of trail north of Georgetown, ride south to Georgetown via Glen Williams, catch the 33 bus to get the last train in from Mt Pleasant, excellent ride, lots of places to stop to get drinks. Very good scenery, feels that you're much further out from TO than you really are.

Still dying to do Midland to Orillia, then Orillia to Barrie, GO bus or train from there back to TO, but my lift to Midland keeps falling through.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

The trouble with Montreal’s cycling boom: It’s getting dangerous — and riders are losing their lives
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...g-dangerous-and-riders-are-losing-their-lives

 

[steveintoronto]

The trouble with Montreal’s cycling boom: It’s getting dangerous — and riders are losing their lives
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...g-dangerous-and-riders-are-losing-their-lives

As soon as I saw it was at the National Pest, my heart sank, but it is a balanced and well written article:
[Has cycling’s popularity outpaced the infrastructure needed to ride safely?]
That line summates the problem. I just talked a lady friend out of cycling to school earlier today (she teaches at Central Tech, lives in Trinity Village). She knows enough to stay off the major streets, so we went looking to find a safe way using the back roads. It's impossible without stretches walking to link them together. She's decided to walk the distance (even though she has a car) and I agree. It takes a firm assertiveness to handle an attack dog. It takes same to handle Toronto roads.

 

[steveintoronto]

Yep, I felt safer on Bloor pre-bike lanes than I do now. Before I had room to take the lane when necessary or pass on the left. Now I have to pretty much be ready to stop at each intersection because it's likely a car is going to right hook me.

There's a feeling of being trapped on the Bloor lanes. Passing other cyclists is impossible in some stretches, and the room to react in an emergency (pedestrian stepping off sidewalk into lane, passenger door opening, etc) just isn't there, and as you say, at non-stop light intersections, drivers don't stop where they are supposed to before crossing the lane to stop before attaining Bloor St.

What clearly makes your point, and when it struck me, I was astounded: It's *vastly* safer on the stretch between Avenue Rd and Sherbourne, most specifically Bay and Yonge, where there are no lanes! The reason being that there's no parking. Traffic moves much more smoothly, and relative to the rest of Bloor, *predictably*. And sightlines are much better.

I used to think this position was impossible due to merchant wishes, but I've now changed it: For Bloor to work for cycling, lanes or not, *parking must be banned*. Merchants themselves might be the ones to realize this, since only 10% or less of their customers park on Bloor. And if merchants decide against parking, and realize the benefit of cycling past their stores, we've won a huge victory. As it stands, the Bloor lanes not only aren't working, they're freakin' dangerous.

 

[bilked]

I'm really not understanding the hate-on for the Bloor street bike lanes in this thread.

I use the Bloor bike lanes to commute from the annex downtown everyday and they're brilliant. I love them. It's night and day compared to the former situation and so much safer and more relaxed. For a good refresher on what things used to be like, take Queen or Dundas during rush hour.

Yes, things could be improved upon once these are made permanent and Sherbourbe and Queens Quay have a lot to recommend. But the posters here do know this is a pilot-project, right? They're not going to be pouring concrete just yet.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm really not understanding the hate-on for the Bloor street bike lanes in this thread.

No great surprise there.

But the posters here do know this is a pilot-project, right?

Gosh, none of us knew that....we had no idea. Phhhh...it's exactly because it is a "pilot project" (as discussed at length in this forum) that there's a prerogative to get it right. And it's far from right, your observations besides. It's a litany of compromise and bad design practice.

But don't let the realities pointed out by others upset your blissful unawareness.

I'll post this *yet again* for readers like yourself who fail to follow the issues:

[...]
Jared Kolb, executive director of Cycle Toronto, described the footage of Mobishwash’s crash as “gutting.” He said the incident is evidence that the city needs to revisit the design of its separated bike lanes, which mostly rely on “flexi-posts” to provide a physical barrier between bicyclists and car traffic.

The posts, which have been used on separated bike lanes on Adelaide, Richmond St., and Bloor St., have gaps between them and “are not working to keep motor vehicles out of the bike lanes. That’s something we see repeatedly,” Kolb said.

The lane on Adelaide, like those on Bloor and Richmond, have been installed on a pilot project basis.

According to the city’s manager for cycling infrastructure, Jacquelyn Hayward Gulati, monitoring of Adelaide has shown that the flexi-posts “reduce illegal stopping and parking within the cycle tracks.”

In an emailed statement, Gulati pointed out that the city has installed other forms of separation, like planters, on some parts of its bikeway network. “Improving road safety is one of the city's key objectives,” she said. [...]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ghlights-danger-of-parking-in-bike-lanes.html

 

[LNahid2000]

I use the Bloor bike lanes to commute from the annex downtown everyday and they're brilliant. I love them. It's night and day compared to the former situation and so much safer and more relaxed. For a good refresher on what things used to be like, take Queen or Dundas during rush hour.

Queen and Dundas aren't even remotely comparable since they have streetcars. Biking on a road with streetcars is completely different than biking on a road without them. Bloor was better to bike on than Queen/Dundas even before the bike lanes since you didn't have to deal with streetcars.

 

[salsa]

Btw, how did that ride from (Uxbridge?) into TO go that you described months back?

Haven't done it yet, will probably do it in a couple of weeks. I think the mods should start a rail trails thread and move all our posts there.

I used to think this position was impossible due to merchant wishes, but I've now changed it: For Bloor to work for cycling, lanes or not, *parking must be banned*. Merchants themselves might be the ones to realize this, since only 10% or less of their customers park on Bloor. And if merchants decide against parking, and realize the benefit of cycling past their stores, we've won a huge victory. As it stands, the Bloor lanes not only aren't working, they're freakin' dangerous.

Cycle Toronto reps that I spoke to fully agree about the parking issues. But given the political difficulties of removing parking, some of them think they have a better chance to win if they do it incrementally over time. In other words:

1. Implement the compromised bike lanes that maintain some parking, which is still a significant reduction compared to before.
2. Prove that businesses will still thrive just as much (if not more) with less parking.
3. At the same time cycling will continue to grow in popularity. The lanes probably won't even be wide enough to handle the volume of cyclists, especially if they are extended across the city.
4. At that point, get rid of whatever parking remains on Bloor in order to widen the bike lanes and improve safety.

 

[steveintoronto]

Cycle Toronto reps that I spoke to fully agree about the parking issues. But given the political difficulties of removing parking, some of them think they have a better chance to win if they do it incrementally over time. In other words:

1. Implement the compromised bike lanes that maintain some parking, which is still a significant reduction compared to before.
2. Prove that businesses will still thrive just as much (if not more) with less parking.
3. At the same time cycling will continue to grow in popularity. The lanes probably won't even be wide enough to handle the volume of cyclists, especially if they are extended across the city.
4. At that point, get rid of whatever parking remains on Bloor in order to widen the bike lanes and improve safety.

I'm willing to accept that if delineation is improved in the interim, and this remains the proven and needed way to do it:

Ensuring that cyclists tackle their daily commute without threat of vehicles encroaching on their space, Cycle Lane Delineators are an award-winning, simple and effective way of preventing vehicles from entering cycle lanes.

Made from 100% recycled PVC, Cycle Lane Delineators are bolted into the ground and spaced out so that cyclists can enter or exit the cycle
lanes as needed.

Much quicker and more cost effective to install than other solutions, Cycle Lane Delineators have been successfully installed and in 100’s of major towns and cities across Europe and North America over the past 7 years.

http://www.cyclehoop.com/product/cycle-lane-safety/armadillos/

Blocking the present intrusion into the buffer, let alone the lane, is imperative if the extant flawed model is to work at all. And these are cheaper than concrete curbs!

 

[salsa]

The Bolton GO bus connection really good. I've been doing the Caledon Trailway quite often, it's superb but medium short, can easily be done between rush-hours. GO bus to north of Bolton, (Columbia Way) ride up to just south of Black Horse via Mt Hope road, attain the trail, ride west to the end of trail north of Georgetown, ride south to Georgetown via Glen Williams, catch the 33 bus to get the last train in from Mt Pleasant, excellent ride, lots of places to stop to get drinks. Very good scenery, feels that you're much further out from TO than you really are.

Still dying to do Midland to Orillia, then Orillia to Barrie, GO bus or train from there back to TO, but my lift to Midland keeps falling through.

By the way, have you done the Elora-Cataract trail? I want to do it starting from Orangeville but the GO bus only runs on weekdays and arrives later than 2 pm at best.

 

[steveintoronto]

By the way, have you done the Elora-Cataract trail? I want to do it starting from Orangeville but the GO bus only runs on weekdays and arrives later than 2 pm at best.

Many times, although the last time I did it was from the Orangeville bus. I just checked the schedule, they've changed it! Damn! You're right, earliest now is 13:46 @ Brampton. This time of year, that's a bit late to do the length comfortably, because you have a good stretch to do down from Elora to Guelph to get a bus back out. The Elora-Cataract Trail remains in fine condition with a few iffy spots where the clay has been washed out of the crushed limestone leaving the stones a bit loose.

There is another way to get to it from Georgetown north, in your case, since you don't mind arterial roads, Mt. Pleasant might be the better way. You can do the length in four hours if you're a powerful cyclist. It is a superb trail, btw, scenery changes radically in spots.

Just glancing at the schedule again here, consider doing it from the Elora end, and taking the bus south at the Cataract end. Must run, will detail a suggested route later. I went out yesterday, got to Square One on 21P bus, it was too cool for me, took MiWay down to Port Credit, cycled in from there. Going to try again tomorrow, need more sunshine, will do Aberfoyle to Hamilton, via the Dundas Valley (TH&B Trail, attained by Valens Rd mostly south, all back roads). Travel time, mmmm...2 1/2 hours, less if it's the temp they predict.

We're going to have to do some miles together! Bit late in the year, but maybe a group of we "Urbanites" could do a group ride? I'm dreading the withdrawal as the season wanes. Endorphins are the most addictive substance I've ever known.

 

[ShonTron]

By the way, have you done the Elora-Cataract trail? I want to do it starting from Orangeville but the GO bus only runs on weekdays and arrives later than 2 pm at best.

When I did it a week and a half ago, I took the morning bus from Downtown Brampton under the old schedule. It was busier than I expected, and I don't understand why GO operates weekend buses to Beaverton, but not to Orangeville.

The worst part was Caledon to Cataract. Some really nasty truckers on Charleston Sideroad determined to run me off the road.