Johnny Au
Superstar
...and has local bus service as well with Route 109 Ranee
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Rainforest
Senior Member
I don't drive there very often; a few times I did, northbound Allen was pretty fast and not congested. Definitely faster than Dufferin or Bathurst.
Southbound, the fastest option is probably taking Allen to Lawrence, then exiting at Lawrence and bypassing the Eglinton & Allen intersection (that one is always filled, even off-peak and was so even before the LRT construction started).
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
During the PM rush, southbound on Allen is fast until you get to just south of Glencairin; then you’re stuck in standstill traffic for 10 to 15 mins until you can exit at Eglinton.
Avenue Road and Bathurst are slow, but at least they’re moving.
Google Maps/Waze almost always recommends I use Avenue Road, Bathurst Street, and sometimes (rarely) even Yonge, to avoid the congestion on Allen.
I don’t really use Dufferin, but I suspect it’s slower than Allen given my limited experience.
toaster29
Active Member
Yes, but it would take much longer to use those parallel roads if the Allen was closed, since all the current traffic on the Allen would be forced to those streets??
Also, who uses the same road everyday in the age of Waze.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I suspect it would be slower, but it's hard to say with induced demand being a factor. As we've seen in the past, freeway removals often cause the demand to evaporate, with nominal impact on travel times.
I'm not convinced that Allen Road has had a significant benefit to commutes, beyond making it possible to fit more cars on the road (and its questionable if thats truly a benefit).
Palma
Senior Member
and difficult to cross Marlee on foot or by car at intersections because there are no stops signs or stop lights till you get to Glencarin or maybe Glen Park
Palma
Senior Member
and difficult to cross Marlee on foot or by car at intersections because there are no stops signs or stop lights till you get to Glencarin or maybe Glen Park
toaster29
Active Member
I'm curious, where have we seen that in Toronto in the past?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I was talking about other cities. Toronto has only had one past freeway removal (Gardiner east of DVP), but few people used it in the first place so it’s a poor example.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Indeed. Toronto is a relic in many respects:
Six Freeway Removals That Changed Their Cities Forever - Gizmodo
Highway Removal – Streetsblog New York City
Removing Freeways - Restoring Cities - Preservation Institute
From the latter link above:
New York, NY
West Side Highway
New York’s West Side Highway was the first elevated highway to be built, with construction beginning in the 1920s. And it was the first elevated highway to collapse, decaying so badly that it had to be closed permanently in the 1970s.
When the West Side Highway was closed in 1973, 53 percent of the traffic that had used this highway disappeared, dramatic proof that building freeways generates traffic and that removing freeways reduces traffic. Yet there was tremendous pressure to replace this highway with a bigger and better freeway named Westway.
The plan was defeated after a David versus Goliath struggle that lasted for more than a decade, with a group of west-side residents, community boards, and environmentalists fighting the entire New York political establishment, including New York city’s mayor and New York state’s governor and two senators.
Now, there is a park, pedestrian promenade, and bicycle path along the Hudson River on Manhattan’s west side - public places that are real amenities for Manhattan on land that used to be blighted by an elevated freeway.
[...]
Prequel to Toronto? Portends what could/should happen here? Not at this rate...
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cplchanb
Senior Member
well from reading the articles theres a general trend for those examples. They either:
a. had a huge disaster that catalysed and justified the demolition
b. they did it decades ago when construction was much cheaper and they could dictate the terms of development instead of the opposite these days
c. they have a network of supporting transit and/or connecting routes that could act as a viable alternative
unfortunately for our decaying city, weve had/have none of these conditions that would make removing highway infrastructure realistic in the next foreseeable future. until any of those 3 items
occur in our city, dont hold your breath for anything dramatic in our lifetimes.
BMO
Senior Member
Yea, I live in the area and I always use Allen Road because it is faster. The issue is that you have so many conflict points at Eglinton/Allen between Buses turning into and out of the station as well as traffic turning on and off the Allen. I can't even remember how it was like before construction, I'm interested to see if the construction will have some sort of long-lasting effect on dispersing traffic away from the corridor.
I think another issue is that there's no HWY 401 access to Bathurst from/to WB which forces a bunch of people to have to use Allen. Sure you can close down Allen and force them off at Dufferin and then make the entire Yorkdale area an even more massive mess than it already is. The entire Allen road corridor needs to be coupled into a secondary master plan between Caledonia, Bathurst, Hwy 401 and Rogers Road to come up with a real solution. A lot of the minor collectors in the area just don't have the capacity to assume more traffic, you have Marlee Avenue, Caledonia, Castlefield, and Glencairn that are all one lane in either direction. Not to mention the only roads that cross Eglinton straight without a jog are Dufferin (geometry not ideal), Caledonia (geometry not ideal), and Bathurst. Okawood and Marlee both end in a 'T' at Eglinton adding more traffic onto Eglinton. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to get onto Vaughan Road from Dufferin due to all the one-way streets and restrictions in the adjacent neighbourhoods. This forces a bunch of traffic onto Eglinton around Allen Road that could otherwise by-pass the area.
The area is actually setup quite well for east-west traffic with frequent crossings over Allen Road, but not very good for north-south traffic with Eglinton and the neighbourhood restrictions in the adjacent neighbourhoods being the main culprit.
Allandale25
Superstar
salsa
Senior Member
For all the same dumb reasons that we've been hearing since the Ford era:
Tunneling the LRT makes sense for many reasons
- Tunnelling the LRT is better for drivers. Eglinton Avenue is already gridlocked. It's a major artery in Etobicoke. An at-grade, (meaning on the surface of the road) LRT would make traffic worse.
- Tunnelling the LRT is better for transit riders. We need to get Toronto moving. The right LRT plan will get people where they need to go when they need to be there. A tunneled LRT would not be slowed by traffic or stop lights and move more quickly.
- Tunneling the LRT is better for taxpayers. To keep Etobicoke’s economy growing, we need to keep Eglinton moving. Tunneling the LRT would keep people, goods, and services flowing between Toronto, Pearson Airport, Mississauga and the entire region. Tunneling would also reduce long-term maintenance and upkeep costs.
- Tunneling the LRT is safer for Etobicoke. Eglinton Avenue is gridlocked. The traffic spills over on local residential streets used by commuters as a shortcut. A tunneled LRT would reduce safety concerns.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
There really has been no report update since 2016. What was last discussed was possible grade separations, but nothing was updated or even decided. See link.
Likely will have to be incorporated with the Pearson Transit Hub. See link.