[EagleEye]

I'm watching CHCH and the panel thinks Andrea was the best. I thought Wynne won it hands down.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm watching CHCH and the panel thinks Andrea was the best. I thought Wynne won it hands down.

CHCH...Hamilton. Steel poisoning...I refused to watch the panel after the CBC coverage, since they were all party operatives. You knew who they thought had won it by their party tags.

I thought Wynne did amazingly well. It's sad...

 

[TransitBart]

Sweden has a 20% VAT. Not that that's a major problem. They still have malls and stores and commerce and restaurants and a private sector that spends way more on value-added R&D. They don't have many panhandlers though (I can't recall any). Public infrastructure is excellent and accessible. Population-wise Sweden is a bit smaller than Ontario.

On the other hand, you really can't get a good steak there.

Sweden is a good deal smaller than Ontario population-wise. Just over 9 million.

We also live in North America next to a large market with low-cost consumer goods and light on big governments. Sweden is located in a large market of similar (high) expense structure conomies.

 

[steveintoronto]

Sweden is a good deal smaller than Ontario population-wise. Just over 9 million.
We also live in North America next to a large market with low-cost consumer goods and light on big governments. Sweden is located in a large market of similar expense structure conomies.

10M, and they produce a world leading fighter aircraft and other world leading rail and other industrial goods.

Here's the point as it pertains (or not) to this string (And Beez has clarified his point after this)

I get it that Wynne wants to Scandinavia’ize Ontario with cradle to grave nanny state programs, like free tuition, free dental, free meds, high min wage, etc, etc.... But why hasn’t she put in place the means to pay for this?

The point is rendered somewhat moot, albeit Ontario and Canada's productivity is very poor (I'm being diplomatic) and unless there's *societal change* as much as political (they're symbiotic), it will continue to drop.

You know the Fed Lib campaign to continue selling a form of oil the rest of the world that has diminishing demand for is at least part of the myopia. And I'm neither a Neo-Con or a Dipper. I base the comment on knowing that alternative energy is now *cheaper* than conventional, and that is completely relevant to the Ontario Hellection, and barely discussed save by the Greens and a Dipper nod to closing Pickering et al. Ford likes to rant on it, but the closest he gets to understanding it is the smoke coming out his tailpipe. And it ain't hash...it's his blown rings and churning in the crankcase.

Reference for low productivity (immense amounts online)
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...apitalize-on-research-and-development-sector/

 

[TransitBart]

I didn't have the stomach to actually sit through this, figured I'd catch the recaps online. But holy shit. Did Ford really say this?

Actually, this was the front-page headline in the Toronto Sun on Saturday after a candidate shared a Nazi theme meme. Not the first time I read this today. The meme is copied in the Sun and does feature Hitler making a Nazi salute.

 

[Videodrome]

How about the other parties?

Not many Liberals signs, but a good deal of NDP ones

 

[WislaHD]

Mainstreet has released a bunch of riding polls today.

In Toronto Centre, the NDP are dominating, 45%-27%.

St. Paul's is surprisingly tight, with the Liberals and NDP basically tied at 33%.

Kathleen Wynne also has a 3 point lead over the PCs in Don Valley West, 39%-36%.

Scarborough SW has the NDP narrowly leading over the Tories, 38%-36%.

That tight in DVW huh?

That is surprising for me. Gosh. I really do not know how to vote this election.

I could vote Wynne to ensure PC's lose one more seat as NDP form government.

I could vote for the PC candidate to rid the provincial Liberals of Wynne once and for all but risk Ford forming government.

Or I could do what I want to do and vote Green / burn my ballot because this is what this election is doing to me and no matter what happens I can remain morally right / sound of mind.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Or I could do what I want to do and vote Green / burn my ballot because this is what this election is doing to me and no matter what happens I can remain morally right / sound of mind.

"Choose life."

 

[SunriseChampion]

Actually, this was the front-page headline in the Toronto Sun on Saturday after a candidate shared a Nazi theme meme. Not the first time I read this today. The meme is copied in the Sun and does feature Hitler making a Nazi salute.

I saw the meme she posted and died laughing. Man, if that's the inspirational quote from Hitler used then I'm all for it. They make it seem like it was something brutal. Hitler was insane but not completely everything out of his mouth was bullshit.

 

[Northern Light]

The point is rendered somewhat moot, albeit Ontario and Canada's productivity is very poor (I'm being diplomatic) and unless there's *societal change* as much as political (they're symbiotic), it will continue to drop.

Here's a notion.

I think our lack of productivity is due to not tacking more toward Scandinavian type policies.

Higher amounts of vacation and stricter limits on overtime have been shown to raise productivity as people are better rested, more clear-minded and more motivated.

Higher entry-level wages, force employers to use each employee optimally. Its not as if money is going to sit on the sidelines, the opportunity for profit remains. However, one can only
make that profit by optimizing labour (proper training, and motivation) because the cost barrier it too high to make up for lack of skill or interest by sheer numbers. We do too much of the latter
today in Canada.

We do that, because cheap labour remains an easier option than investing in technology or training.

Raise the cost of labour, and limit access to low-cost labour pools (Temp. Foreign worker for low-skill jobs ) and you get the incentive to be productive.

This is what I like most in the NDP platform, 3 weeks paid vacation, plus unifying the $15 min. wage (no more exceptions for teens or wait staff, we are the only province that does this so far as I know)

I would also like to see scheduling tackled, as I think the continuing allowance of 3-hours shifts, no minimum weekly hours, and allowing employers to demand availability w/o guaranteed hours needs to stop.

4-hour min. shifts, no available days to work w/o guaranteed hours on that day, min. 8 hours per week.

Simple moves to remove the incentive towards large numbers of disposable staff.

Likewise, I'd like see some variation of universal pharmacare in order to remove a disincentive to full-time employment. Right now, part-timers/seasonals are not required to have the same benefits as full-time staff. I'm finew/not entering someone into a benefits program who may only be on-staff six months. But then they should be paid the cash-equiv. of the benefit, so as to remove an artificial disincentive to hire full-time.

 

[steveintoronto]

That tight in DVW huh?

That is surprising for me. Gosh. I really do not know how to vote this election.

I could vote Wynne to ensure PC's lose one more seat as NDP form government.

I could vote for the PC candidate to rid the provincial Liberals of Wynne once and for all but risk Ford forming government.

Or I could do what I want to do and vote Green / burn my ballot because this is what this election is doing to me and no matter what happens I can remain morally right / sound of mind.

Not that it's statistically meaningful, but I noted an uptick in this poll https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...on-debate-lacks-singular-defining-moment.html for the Greens. You're not alone.

 

[Northern Light]

I saw the meme she posted and died laughing. Man, if that's the inspirational quote from Hitler used then I'm all for it. They make it seem like it was something brutal. Hitler was insane but not completely everything out of his mouth was bullshit.

The optics of being seen to quote Hitler are terrible for the obvious reason you can't find many more reviled people in history.

That said, its an old-stock phrase that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

This might be a case where one need not give credit for the quote.

I don't think he has an estate that would sue.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Here's a notion.

I think our lack of productivity is due to not tacking more toward Scandinavian type policies.

Higher amounts of vacation and stricter limits on overtime have been shown to raise productivity as people are better rested, more clear-minded and more motivated.

Higher entry-level wages, force employers to use each employee optimally. Its not as if money is going to sit on the sidelines, the opportunity for profit remains. However, one can only
make that profit by optimizing labour (proper training, and motivation) because the cost barrier it too high to make up for lack of skill or interest by sheer numbers. We do too much of the latter
today in Canada.

We do that, because cheap labour remains an easier option than investing in technology or training.

Raise the cost of labour, and limit access to low-cost labour pools (Temp. Foreign worker for low-skill jobs ) and you get the incentive to be productive.

This is what I like most in the NDP platform, 3 weeks paid vacation, plus unifying the $15 min. wage (no more exceptions for teens or wait staff, we are the only province that does this so far as I know)

I would also like to see scheduling tackled, as I think the continuing allowance of 3-hours shifts, no minimum weekly hours, and allowing employers to demand availability w/o guaranteed hours needs to stop.

4-hour min. shifts, no available days to work w/o guaranteed hours on that day, min. 8 hours per week.

Simple moves to remove the incentive towards large numbers of disposable staff.

Likewise, I'd like see some variation of universal pharmacare in order to remove a disincentive to full-time employment. Right now, part-timers/seasonals are not required to have the same benefits as full-time staff. I'm find w/not entering someone into a benefits program who may only be on-staff six months. But then they should be paid the cash-equiv. of the benefit, so as to remove an artificial disincentive to hire full-time.

Man, are you insane?!
Stop talking sense. That's not what this election is about.
It's about "change", fear of change, half-baked subsidy schemes, and maths magic.
No one has time for sensible policy ideas.

 

[SunriseChampion]

The optics of being seen to quote Hitler are terrible for the obvious reason you can't find many more reviled people in history.

I know, I know. I just actually lol ed when I read it. I was expecting a real reason for alarm and all I got was something I agree with. Booooring.

 

[steveintoronto]

Here's a notion.

I think our lack of productivity is due to not tacking more toward Scandinavian type policies.

[...]

To make this more neutral (neutralize the bias, as economists would phrase it), the State of Victoria in Oz has reached similar conclusions to your points on Ontario:

At the end of this month Australia’s Productivity Commission will issue the final report of its inquiry into Early Childhood Education and Care.

The inquiry was limited from the outset by the requirement that changes must be within existing funding parameters. Although asked to review alternative approaches that are used overseas, it was directed towards New Zealand’s precedent of subsidising at-home carers or nannies. The inquiry failed to consider the far more successful and comprehensive policy approach taken by Sweden and other Nordic nations.

The OECD has identified Australia as one of a small number of countries in which long working hours are common. In comparison, parents in Sweden and the other main Nordic countries have working weeks shorter than the OECD average. This is in addition to their substantial paid parental leave and publicly provided child care.

Shorter working hours allow parents from Sweden to pick up their children after work without the time pressures Australian parents face.

Australia will probably move to make child-care centre hours more flexible to suit our long working hours. However, the government should encourage shorter working hours, which are more compatible with family life.

Crumbling boundaries between work and home in Australia are leading to considerable and increasing unpaid work and causing social harm. More than three million workers in Australia are now losing sleep because of work stress.

According to the Australia Institute,

The current labour environment is contributing to high levels of stress and anxiety; sleep loss and depression for many Australians. This has adverse effects on their health, family life and relationships.

This is also an impediment to greater economic productivity.

Policies for the people
Sweden acts as a good point of comparison for Australia – and not just in terms of child care. Its social policies have proved to be very successful in terms of economic outcomes and at the polls.
[...continues...]

https://theconversation.com/we-can-learn-a-lot-about-public-policy-from-the-nordic-nations-32204

[...]
It’s common for Canadian social democrats to model themselves after the so-called Nordic countries—Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Iceland. Those societies have achieved a high degree of social solidarity, economic prosperity and personal freedom. They have strong educational outcomes, lower levels of inequality and good health. They have an internationalist outlook. They are happy.

We should import the Nordic model, say many Canadian social democrats. But—is it coincidental?—the Nordic countries all have a fundamentally different political constitution than ours. They are all unitary nations without provinces, states or territories. Canada is a federation with powers constitutionally divided between two levels of government. [...]

http://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/tom_parkin_/nordic_socialdemocracy_in_canada

Which brings us back to the population at almost parity Sweden to Ontario...the bug-a-boo that I see isn't the non-linear comparison in terms of governing entity, it's far more *societal*.

Let me put this very bluntly, none of the Nordics, even when voting far to the Right, would ever consider anything remotely like a Thug Ford for a 'leader'. Ex-Soviet states might.

'Conservatism' means something wholly different to many advanced nations than what's become rancid in this nation.

[...]
The Nordic model isn’t social democratic government. It’s an economic structure constituted through the contracts between the social partners, independent of the government of the day. It survives even when the Social Democrats are out of office.
[...]

- Above link