afransen said:
Speed is important when converting mode share. When it comes to HuLRT, the number of stops is not too bad. But I worry about the travel speed on a line like this. It is expected to average 28 kph according to Metrolinx. That seems too slow for rapid transit and a lot of users won't be converted from cars when you factor in the added walk and wait times. If you have money you will be inclined to continue to drive. I also worry that we may not do as good a job with signal priority as hoped.

There are no N/S GO links in Peel, and GO does not serve MCC. There is bus service, but that is just as likely to get stuck in traffic.
Click to expand...
Line 2 (Bloor-Danforth) has an average speed of 32km/h. This isn't much slower.
 
jys said:
Line 2 (Bloor-Danforth) has an average speed of 32km/h. This isn't much slower.
Click to expand...
And BD is slow. Extending it to Mississauga would be pointless.

Beyond that, transit in a suburb ought to have higher average speed than in a dense urban area to be competitive with driving. The Huronario LRT is competing with 60-70 kph speed limit six lane arterials, not 50 kph 2-4 lane roads with parking and frequent intersections.
 
Last edited:
afransen said:
And BD is slow. Extending it to Mississauga would be pointless.

Beyond that, transit in a suburb ought to have higher average speed than in a dense urban area to be competitive with driving. The Huronario LRT is competing with 60-70 kph speed limit six lane arterials, not 50 kph 2-4 lane roads with parking and frequent intersections.
Click to expand...

I'm expecting Hurontario's traffic lanes will be narrowed and the speed limit reduced, in most sections, to 50 km/h.
 
afransen said:
And BD is slow. Extending it to Mississauga would be pointless.

Beyond that, transit in a suburb ought to have higher average speed than in a dense urban area to be competitive with driving. The Huronario LRT is competing with 60-70 kph speed limit six lane arterials, not 50 kph 2-4 lane roads with parking and frequent intersections.
Click to expand...

In pre COVID real world rush traffic, the big suburban arterials rarely average more than 30 km/h.
 
ARG1 said:
I don't think Line 2 is a good point of comparison. Line 2 arguably has way too many stations, way too close to each other, stations that significantly decrease the average speed of the line.
Click to expand...
afransen said:
And BD is slow. Extending it to Mississauga would be pointless.

Beyond that, transit in a suburb ought to have higher average speed than in a dense urban area to be competitive with driving. The Huronario LRT is competing with 60-70 kph speed limit six lane arterials, not 50 kph 2-4 lane roads with parking and frequent intersections.
Click to expand...
Very good points. Do we have more suitable data from somewhere else for comparison?
 
afransen said:
And transit isn't really 28 kph when you have a 5 minute walk, a 5 minute wait, and a 5 minute walk.
Click to expand...
Although you are absolutely right here. Transit can't compete on speed. But here, it will be useful if the parking spaces keep becoming scarce. Most of the folks who commute to downtown Toronto don't drive because of exorbitant parking prices, irrespective of the driving time.
 
Non-paywalled story here:

thepointer.com

In 2018 Metrolinx quietly cut Hurontario LRT capacity, increasing peak wait times by 50%

Details in the provincial Auditor General’s annual report show significant cuts to the Hurontario LRT will result in longer gaps between service, even during rush hour.
thepointer.com thepointer.com

And a discussion on frequency.

1608144539707.png

1608144597042.png
 
As long as the capability to increase service as the corridor intensifies is still there. When this line launches, most projects along the corridor (especially the Square One, Cooksville, and Shoppers World redevelopments) will still be in the pipeline. There may be latent demand already, but it's not unexpected that Metrolinx would aim to just match existing service frequency until riders stop taking the bus.
 
superelevation said:
Can someone explain why Hurontario is getting an LRT (see tramway)? With such sparse density and long distances between locations wouldn't a Metro like the REM (maybe downsized) down the middle of the road (elevated) make way more sense?
Click to expand...

In Ontario we haven't fully appreciated the benefits of elevated transit in the way that Vancouver has and that Montreal has recently discovered.

Personally I think that is 100% the way to go, especially in suburban contexts where setbacks are wide. The cost premium over at-grade LRT isn't that significant once you factor in all the utility relocation involved in LRT, as we can see from comparing Vancouver SkyTrain costs to Ontario LRT costs. Full grade separation means a qualitative improvement in speed (and hence ridership) and allows full automation (allowing significant operating cost savings and negligible marginal cost for improved off-peak frequency.) Costs are slightly more for significantly more benefits.

A lot of the benefits of LRT are independent of the technology itself:
  • Streetscape improvements
  • Upzoning and reduction in parking minimums
  • Reduced traffic lanes
  • Reserved lanes for transit
The Hurontario LRT was developed back when Kathleen Wynne was putting LRTs down every street in Ontario. Overall I think it isn't a bad proposal since it is meant to concentrate development along a corridor, and acts as a "short" connector to two (eventually 3) GO lines and two BRT lines.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top